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Tailsz
03-10-2009, 05:11 AM
So I have an idea for a somewhat simple looting system to clear up some of the issues I have with pure council loot (members immediately assuming favortism or extreme bias... they will assume it anyway but at least this idea should alleviate *some* of it) and the issues I have with DKP (horde'ing points, avoiding obvious upgrades or sidegrades to save for the *best* item)

So my question is... Is there an addon that can track the following?:

2 Points for attending a full raid
1 Point for half the raid
1 point for showing up and being on standby for at least half the raid time

Never reset points, keep the points separate for each instance, and maintain the ability to sync up with all others who have the addon installed (or at least the ability to report to the raid, O chat, wherever)

For example:
Tailsz Attends Naxx 25 for the full raid - Tailsz now has 2 points for Naxx 25
Tailsz is a no show for Malygos 25 - Tailsz Receives no points for Malygos
Tailsz has to leave halfway through Sarth 25 + Drakes - Tailsz Receives 1 Point for Sarth.

So at the end of the week 1 Tailsz in said addon looks like this
Naxx 25 - 2 points
Malygos 25 - 0 points
Sarth 25 - 1 point

I will be running this in tandem with council (assuming the other officers are on board) to help determine those close calls for the really great items and overtime I think this system will give some good stats to go by.

Another Example:
Betrayer of Humanity drops, I have a somewhat tough choice between 2 valuable players.

Ret Pally:
Naxx 25 - 10 points
Malygos 25 - 6 points
Sarth 25 - 14 points

Fury Warrior:
Naxx 25 - 10 points
Malygos 25 - 1 point
Sarth 25 - 14 points

So at a glance I can see that Ret pally has been working diligently on Malygos 25 learning attempts while Fury Warrior has showed up diligently for Naxx and Sarth but has not made as much of an effort to learn Malygos 25.

The system gets better over time with attendance patterns becoming more clear and attendance for each instance making a difference (hopefully creating the same "I want my points" mentality) in loot decisions.

Point being, Betrayer of Humanity would be going to the person thats been showing up to everything the most whether its farm or progression with council determining that last bit of "Is this player going to stick around?" "Has this player been causing a lot of drama lately?" "Do I see him quitting soon?" "has he been playing well or just being carried?"

Every loot system has its flaws of course but I think this is a somewhat happy medium for me. Without an addon to track this stuff though im not sure my self or my other officers would be diligent (or want to) track it all by hand.

I have not researched any addons yet I wanted some feedback on the overall idea first so forgive me if this has already been done by tons of guilds and theres an addon for it.

Squashed
03-10-2009, 06:03 AM
Is this scheme intended to be used as DKP 'purchasing points' or to more clearly identify individuals who show excellent/poor performance and to help reinforce officer decisions?

I'm sure most large guilds do not have to manually handle their DKP values etc and there is a way to track them via combat logs or something like that. Individuals on standby may be more difficult to track. The information would need to be stored and viewed via a webinterface (don't think it can be done in game due to addon restrictions).

Its very likely that there would be external-to-wow work that would need to be done, likely 1-2 hours a week for a 3 night raiding schedule. Many guilds have 1 person dedicated to that, a DKP officer.

Quick google suggested WebDKP 2.0 or DKP Manager as addons - very hard to tell if they're any good behind a firewall though.

phaze
03-10-2009, 06:49 AM
I will be running this in tandem with council


You're setting yourself up for headaches anytime there's a dispute between the 2 systems. Tracking points and then usually ignoring them because you're using Loot Council just sounds like a lot of work for no real gain.

kolben
03-10-2009, 08:50 AM
Points systems like DKP & EPGP typically exist to encourage and reward attendance. Loot Council systems typically exist to award upgrades to the people who need them most.

So question, why track attendance for individual instances? I gather that you have people who don't show up for certain ones. It makes it messy though.

EPGP sounds a little more like it's designed with your goal of awarding highest attendance players a chance at loot first. There are several addons and web packages for EPGP. Not that I'm promoting EPGP, but a simple and established points based system seems ideal. I really can't recommend any loot system that is as granular as you describe because they would be a nightmare in practice to administer if you don't have 25 people with perfect attendance.

Tailsz
03-10-2009, 09:16 AM
yea, it was just an idea or at least a more clear way to justify some loot choices made by the council.

There really is no winning with any loot systems for some people. There will always be someone who cant stand it for one reason or another. I guess whatever is easiest to administer is probably going to win... which probably means.

is there any particular system that doesnt take away from people wanting sidegrades or minor upgrades? I would rather the Gbank be hurting for mats and run a quick 10 naxx to stock up on abyss crystals then to DE things because people are hording their points to get the best items.

Argamasilla
03-10-2009, 11:51 AM
Everyone, pugs and guild members, can roll on loot under the following rules.

Because random loot is random the loot Rules, while strict, are not absolute.


The first rule applies to all bosses;

#1. You can only WIN 1 item per boss; you may roll on more than 1.

There are potentially three types of rolls for each drop; Tier, Main spec, and Off spec.

Main spec is your designated role in the raid, off spec is any piece itemized for your class.

For each raid period;

#2. You can WIN 1 Tier piece Roll; TIER ROLLS ARE ALWAYS FIRST, Rule #1 still applies.

#3. You can WIN 1 main spec drop; you may roll on more than 1, but Rule #1 applies.

#4. You can WIN 1 off spec drop; you may roll on more than 1, but Rule #1 applies.

#5. Don't try to 'game' the loot rules.

#6. If your Eligable to roll, but pass on a main spec item, you can not roll on it off spec.

#7. If no one wants or can use an item, RL/ML can choose to distribute or DE item

- RL/ML Distributed items DO NOT count as a roll; Expect it to go in guild however.

Special situations:

#1. All eligable Tier pass; previous tier WIN can roll, rule #1 applies

- RL/ML verbally confirms if eveyone passes Tier, skip to next item.

- If more than one player can use the skipped tier, but all passed, RL/ML chooses

- If only one player can use, goes to them by default, this is the only exception to Rule 1

#2. All eligable Main spec pass; previous Main spec WIN can roll but counts as off spec roll

- No main spec rolls, then eligable off spec can roll

- No eligable off spec rolls, open to previous off spec WIN; if no rolls then Rule #7

#3. Multi-Role items, itemized for both DPS or Heal roles for example, no 'off spec'

- Open to people who have not previously WON main spec, WIN counts as Main spec WIN

- Open to previous Main WIN, if all mains pass as per rule #6, then rule #7

#4. Desireable items below armor level

- May NOT be rolled main spec

- May roll Off Spec, counts as Off Spec roll

- If cloth wearers pass, it goes to leather, then mail, then plate.

#5. Main Hand / off Hand / Ranged

- Ranged weapons: Ranged classes are main spec, melee are off spec, see Rule #6 and 7

- Melee weapons: Melee classes are main spec, ranged are off spec, see Rule #6 and 7
(MH/OH main spec roll is still Main spec WIN)

- Spell/MP5 MHand/OHand, Casters are main spec, mana users are off spec, see rule #6 and 7

#6. OMG Lucky Basterd Scenerio

- Well, Shit happens. The rules do not explictly limit how many items you can win,
other then 1 per boss, the rules aren't to stop you from getting loot.
Bad rolls are still bad rolls, the rules are to give you a chance at loot.

#7. Quotes

- "I'll take it if no one else wants it."
This is covered in Rule #6 and 7, if you didn't roll you may not get the distribution.
- "I'm only here for item X"
Should we just kick you now? As your probably going to DC after that boss anyway.
We suggest not saving your roll for a specific item, that may not even drop,
NO ONE is guarnteed an item, and you may lose the roll even if it does drop.
- "That's not an [insert main spec] item, they shouldn't get to roll."
Not every piece is fully itemized, we'll try our best, but shit happens.
- "I won a main spec drop on the first boss, why should I finish out the raid?"
Well, 24 other people helped you get that drop, the least you could do is help them back.
If altruism is a disease to you, you can still roll on Tier and/or an off spec item
and can still roll on main spec if everyone else has won a piece, or they don't want it

Malygos Key - Key roll is always FIRST

#1. You must join the KEY Roll BEFORE the fight begins; which is persistant across attempts.

#2. You may ONLY roll on the KEY; even if you lose the key roll.

(You are basically forfeiting loot for a chance at the key)

#3. The RL/ML must verbally acknowledge you joining and leaving the KEY roll.

#4. You may leave the KEY roll, but may not rejoin again that raid period.

#5. If the RL/ML fails to call KEY before the fight starts, regular rules apply.

#6. If no one joins the KEY roll, the RL/ML will choose, NOT raid roll, the winner.

Warwench
03-10-2009, 12:05 PM
Epgp