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View Full Version : DKP - is there a simple one?



LokÝCea
03-06-2009, 07:31 PM
I often wonder what DKP system is the best and most importantly, the easiset to use.

Atm my guild has grown steadily since i took over as GM. It had 200 members when i was officer yet we couldnt even clear a 10 man raid. I soon set about removing dead wood, leechers, inactives and was left with 20 players(35 accounts in guild) of good strong bodies. With these few people we cleared all 10 man content, geared all up and wanting to go 25 man.

Now were raiding 25 man and its alot harder pleasing 25 man raids than 10 man raids when it comes down to loot.

In 10 man all were like one small unit, so would pass over a item so another member could get it so we had no need for loot sharing systems as all shared without a fuss. Now in 25 man i have many /w me after boss dies 'omg i want (insert item) please can i have it, i wanted it forever' etc.

Since growing the members number i have struggled to find a medium that pleases all, as the older members think they have more of a right, the new members wanna quit if they lose out etc etc as im sure you all hear the same stories in your guilds at times.

So to come to the point, the only solution i can come up with for 25 man content loot is if i introduce a DKP system. But when i install one to test it i find them really complex and then resort back to rolling in raids and if you win one you forfeit next roll.

I know all in a raid deserve a roll, but if we have a old member doing 2x as much damage as a trial of same class then i feel a bit aggrieved sometimes giving the newer guy the loot, specially when they leave next few days from guild or whatever.

So id like some sort of DKP so the people who put more effort in can get more rewards out, so anyone know a simple to use one please ?

f14flier7
03-07-2009, 06:34 AM
Do you have a guild website?

LokÝCea
03-07-2009, 08:12 AM
Do you have a guild website?

Yes, weve never really used it, but i have promted a new officer to deal soly with the website and to push the members onto it for guides, information and socialing etc

IPBFREE.COM - Free IPB ( Invision Power Board ) Hosting, Instant Setup, Support Forums, CSS Skins - Get your FREE FORUM NOW! :: Home (http://www.Crusade.ipbfree.com) is our address.

Warwench
03-07-2009, 08:40 AM
I am a big fan of this one -->TheSystem - epgp - The EPGP loot system - Google Code (http://code.google.com/p/epgp/wiki/TheSystem)

It's not DKP though, but from a mathematical standpoint, it makes great sense. It also has a mod in game that tracks and administers the EPGP automatically.

It has some draw backs though, usually around alts, offspec stuff.

My advice is if you like it, and want to use it, let the math handle the problems. Treat alts like a separate character, let offspec loot count just like main spec, let the player decide which loot they want.

phaze
03-07-2009, 10:26 AM
You need to first identify what exactly you want your loot system to accomplish.

Is the goal to get people geared, or to progress on content?
Are core raiders wanting higher priority on drops?
Are new raiders wanting better chances at loot?
How simple do you want it to be, for managing?

Once you know what you want out of it, it's easier to pick a system that is close to that approach.

LokÝCea
03-09-2009, 12:30 AM
You need to first identify what exactly you want your loot system to accomplish.

Is the goal to get people geared, or to progress on content?
Are core raiders wanting higher priority on drops?
Are new raiders wanting better chances at loot?
How simple do you want it to be, for managing?

Once you know what you want out of it, it's easier to pick a system that is close to that approach.

The goal is always to gear people up. The Core raiders belive they have more right on loot that new members, new members also want loot and id like it as simple as possible.

Ty Warwench for that link :)

We raid each night, a usual week for my guild is as follows:

Wed: 1x25 man naxx 1-2 wings
Thu: 1x25 man naxx 1-2 wings
Fri: 2x10 man naxx 3 wings
sat: 25 man sarth & 10 man malygos for best geared
sun: 2x10 man naxx till completion
mon: 2x10 man sarth
tue: attempt 25 man naxx that we cant get past(patchwerk xD for some reason)
Members are allowed to pug VoA 10/25 as guild cannot plan ahead so they fit this in of a daytime out of official raid times.

As you see, we raid alot and have oodles of loot to pass around, but its hard pleasing all. thats why id like a lootshare system for 25 man raids.

hvidgaard
03-09-2009, 04:04 AM
It all comes down to how strictly you want to tie loot with dedication. EPGP is an excellent system to make a system that rewards reliable players and you can reward players for working out strategies, putting mats in the bank and so forth. It might not fit your term "simple" but it isn't complex at all once you grasp the concept. You get EP for raiding, being on time, wiping on progress whatever you decide as appropriate, you get GP every time you receive loot. The person with the highst EP:GP ratio wins an item. Simple as that, to avoid inflation you set a decay.

Personally I prefer a Suicide Kings system. Basically it ensures an even distribution of loot without the randomness of a /roll that can loot starve unlucky players.

Shadevarr
03-09-2009, 03:14 PM
We manage our dkp through webdkp.com

Payout is simple.

1 dkp for attendance
1 dkp for staying until end of raid
1 dkp for downing a new boss
1 dkp for earning a new achievement

bidding is done via whispering the master looter who calls out the name and bid of the highest bidder. Additional bids continue until people pass or a 3 count is reached and then they recieve the item for the amount bid.


Those with more dkp at the time get 1st pick on new loot but in time anyone who wanted it gets it. When there are no mainspec bids, we put the item up for off-spec bidding, and if nothing there we offer it to a toy roll for zero dkp for those who want it to play with (hunters). If the item has zero interest at all, it gets disenchanted.

veneretio
03-09-2009, 03:18 PM
We give 60 dkp per night. (we run 3 hour raids)

Items cost 50 dkp. (5 dkp for offspec... the new way loot has merged has caused some issues here though)

That's about it.

Krashtork
03-11-2009, 10:32 AM
Silent bid DKP is the answer.

(See what Shade posted)

veneretio
03-11-2009, 10:50 PM
Silent bid DKP is the answer.

(See what Shade posted)
I've never liked silent bidding or bidding at all as it takes too much time and just creates far too much of an atmosphere of trying to game the system.

Karlhungus
03-11-2009, 11:02 PM
We use EPGP in my guild, and I find it extremely usable. Really shows how much effort people are putting in too.

Optimoos
03-11-2009, 11:09 PM
Those with more dkp at the time get 1st pick on new loot but in time anyone who wanted it gets it. When there are no mainspec bids, we put the item up for off-spec bidding, and if nothing there we offer it to a toy roll for zero dkp for those who want it to play with (hunters). If the item has zero interest at all, it gets disenchanted.

My biggest problem with DKP is this right here. When I was GM, there were many of us (myself included) who did not have offspecs (playing my hunter at the time) who felt that when somebody said "Oh that's offspec for me, I'll take it for free/reduced cost" that the rest of us who had put in just as much effort as they had were getting short changed as we didn't have an option to take anything for "free." (Sidetracked by the other problem with basic DKP is hoarding points to pick up 1 piece of gear so members hold back the raid as they're not taking pieces that would be upgrades for them - this is solved for the most part by systems like EPGP)

This is why we chose to use a wishlist system. Everyone prioritizes the gear they want out of an instance, when loot drops the person with it highest on their list gets it. If multiple people have it at the same highest position, attendance is used, and if it is still a tie, we roll off. We maintained a shorter off-spec wishlist for people who really wanted a specific item in their offset so it wouldn't go to rolls immediately for them, otherwise the item would be rolled for and finally sharded. I think this ended up making the most people happy (apart from initially converting from DKP to this system, there were a few who had hoarded DKP which was now essentially useless that they were a wee bit upset about, but they mostly got over it).

orcstar
03-13-2009, 03:04 AM
One of the things I see is that you do a mix of 10 and 25 men raids.
Seperate them. What you do in 10 mens shouldn't impact what's done in 25 mens. They're of a different magnitude.

We basically have Veneritio's system for 25 mens: 70 dkp for a night of raiding and 100 dkp/item mainspec: if you get something offspec you put an Abyss Crystal in the guildbank. Benched people also get standby dkp, but more important: attendance.
But....we also have a pretty low dkp cap.
If someone first joins, he will ofcourse be getting a lot of gear and go negative dkp but also you get so much dkp that getting to the cap isn't far away for anyone.

So we get to the second: attendance. We're having a lot of people sitting at the cap, and when two have the same amount of dkp, item goes to the one with highest attendance over last 30 days only.

This way, recent activity is rewarded heavily, and people need to keep turning up to stay high on attendance.

(also: we imply 2 ranks: member and trial, members always have priority mainspec on any item over trials, trials can only be trial for 2 weeks.)

Bountee
07-14-2009, 04:57 AM
An alternative to DKP is the Loot Ladder, we use the one at:
The Drunken Dwarf (http://www.thedrunkendwarf.com/)