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View Full Version : Royal Crest of Lordaeron vs. The Skull or Ruin



Anglachel
03-04-2009, 05:33 AM
I pugged Naxx10 yesterday and managed to walk out with The Skull of Ruin (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39276) and Repelling Charge (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39292).

Until i got those, i was using the Royal Crest of Lordaeron (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43085) and Rune of Repulsion (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40372).

Enchant wise, i have the defense enchant of the Royal Crest and the 40 SBV on the Skull.

My question is: how would i best mix and match all that stuff to get best results? My idea is using the Skull+Repelling charge for trash (maybe adding the Lavanthor trinket too for extra blocks) and the Crest+Charge for bosses (i like the hit and i think that's the highest avoidance combo), but i figured feedback from the community doesn't hurt, and i've certainly been wrong before...

My Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Feathermoon&n=Anglachel)

Sadly the weapon i'm using is the only epic weapon i've managed to get my hands on. I also have an Infantry Assault Blade (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37179), but since i'm uncrittable without a weapon, i figured i would go for the epic for extra threat.

Also, Bonus Track Question: Assuming i'm uncrittable without the Charge, shoul i keep using it, or start using the Rune of Repulsion?

EDIT: Forgot to say, my raid just put Naxx25 on farm, and we're currently working on squeezing it into one day to try Malygos on our second night. I have a separate OS25 raid that is currently working on one drake up. Ideally i should be able to walk into Ulduar the day it's launched with a good chance at making progress. I basically PuG all my 10 mans, and heroics when i have the chance (not much motivation to them anymore, since as of yesterday i have enough Heroisms to get the dodge trinket, (though i'm holding off on getting it) and that's i think the last piece of heroism loot i need.

veneretio
03-04-2009, 07:54 AM
You're spot on with your idea of Skull for trash and Crest for bosses. As to the Charge vs Rune of Repulsion debate. I'd use Repelling Charge in basically every situation over the Rune. It simply offers more passive avoidance and it gives you some free Block Rating too!

Anglachel
03-04-2009, 09:34 AM
thanks for the answer Vene, good to know i wasn't so far off.

Follow up question: if i were to get Defender's Code, would it be a good replacement for the Essence of Gossamer? I'm thinking that 850 armor is most likely no match for 111 stam, especially since i don't think it scales with toughness (i'm thinking i saw somewhere that the changes to bear multipliers extend to all armor multipliers for all classes? i may be wrong again)? Is it worth bidding for it? (raid uses Suicide Kings)

I guess i could also use it alongside the Essence for pure EH purpouses, but i usually prefer to keep my stats balanced between threat, avoidance and EH.

veneretio
03-04-2009, 10:08 AM
Ya, I'm not a very big fan of Defender's Coder. I don't think it offers enough for it's itemlevel. I'd definitely stick with Essence of Gossamer over it. In a pure EH set, the Defender would be kinda nice with Essence, but personally, I'd likely still use Essence with Repelling Charge so that I could use less Defense and more Stamina in other item slots.

Schboo
04-05-2009, 02:21 AM
The posts here pointed out that Crest was better for bosses - but, can someone explain to me something?

With Crest, I'm at 557 Def
With Skull of Ruin, I'm at 552 Def

With Crest: Dodge (22.86) + Parry (18.56) + Block (25.80) = 65.56%
With Skull: Dodge (22.71) + Parry (18.42) + Block (27.12) = 66.68%

Does this have something to do with Skull being more effective because of its significant increase in block (shown above) post 540? If so, does this mean that Skull > Crest for avoidance/bosses, or am I missing something?

Hengist
04-05-2009, 02:40 AM
The posts here pointed out that Crest was better for bosses - but, can someone explain to me something?

With Crest, I'm at 557 Def
With Skull of Ruin, I'm at 552 Def

With Crest: Dodge (22.86) + Parry (18.56) + Block (25.80) = 65.56%
With Skull: Dodge (22.71) + Parry (18.42) + Block (27.12) = 66.68%

Does this have something to do with Skull being more effective because of its significant increase in block (shown above) post 540? If so, does this mean that Skull > Crest for avoidance/bosses, or am I missing something?
You are missing the fact that block is not an avoidance. Crest offers higher miss chance, higher dodge, and higher parry, and those are avoidance.

Schboo
04-05-2009, 06:42 AM
Thanks for the quick reply.

Really? Isn't there such thing as "fully" and "partially" blocking, where the former would be considered as a "pure" manifestation of "avoidance"? (since partial blocking would be better classified under "mitigation", like armor)

So you're saying that block (be it value or rating) shouldn't really be looked at for hard hitting boss fights?

Hengist
04-05-2009, 07:24 AM
Thanks for the quick reply.

Really? Isn't there such thing as "fully" and "partially" blocking, where the former would be considered as a "pure" manifestation of "avoidance"? (since partial blocking would be better classified under "mitigation", like armor)

So you're saying that block (be it value or rating) shouldn't really be looked at for hard hitting boss fights?
Whether the hit is blocked fully or partially depends only on the strength of hit, and not some chance of happening - so if you have 1300 block value, you can only fully block hits which are 1300 damage after armor or lower (well, there is critical block too, so 30% of 2600 block). Fully blocked hit is technically mitigated to 0, so effectively the same as avoidance. But bosses not often hit low enough for fully blocked hits to be possible, so in vast majority of bossfights, and basically in all bossfights where tank's survival is an issue at all, block is only mitigation, and not a reliable one, if you are a warrior, that is. That means for fights where you are stuggling to survive basically all warrior tanks gear up for effective health and avoidance. We also can and should gear for more threat, that doesn't leave much for block, since gear either has block, threat stats or more avoidance, rarely you get all warrior tanking stats on one piece, and even if such items would exist, from pure survivability point of view pieces itemized only with stamina, avoidance and threat stats would be better, and such items are bound to exist because of dk tanks. Block related stats pollute our tier sets :(

Schboo
04-06-2009, 01:25 AM
Wow, I did know about block value.. but I *did not* know that "full" blocks depend on it :O Thanks very much for educating me on that.

While we're on the subject of threat: I always assumed that gearing for block *was* the way to gear for threat (since hit/expertise seemed to come "naturally" in recent tier sets) - also since there's a hefty amount of block from items like Waistguard of the Tutor and Inexorable Sabatons. Would it be possible for you to give me a ballpark "ratio" for how better expertise/hit is to block in terms of threat? :) And, will such a ratio differ post "hit cap" (or soft hit, at least)?

Or are you saying block value shouldn't *ever* be prioritized over hit/expertise? (Again, bringing us back to the Skull of Ruin vs Crest of Lordaeron topic.. but now in terms of threat - does the +25 hit make Crest > Skull for avoidance *and* threat? :O )

Hengist
04-06-2009, 02:35 AM
Wow, I did know about block value.. but I *did not* know that "full" blocks depend on it :O Thanks very much for educating me on that.

While we're on the subject of threat: I always assumed that gearing for block *was* the way to gear for threat (since hit/expertise seemed to come "naturally" in recent tier sets) - also since there's a hefty amount of block from items like Waistguard of the Tutor and Inexorable Sabatons. Would it be possible for you to give me a ballpark "ratio" for how better expertise/hit is to block in terms of threat? :) And, will such a ratio differ post "hit cap" (or soft hit, at least)?

Or are you saying block value shouldn't *ever* be prioritized over hit/expertise? (Again, bringing us back to the Skull of Ruin vs Crest of Lordaeron topic.. but now in terms of threat - does the +25 hit make Crest > Skull for avoidance *and* threat? :O )
Thats a hard question to answer since some of those stats scale with each other, I always assumed that hit and expertise are better than sbv for tps, because they affect almost every single one warrior's attack (Thunder Clap being unaffected by expertise, but needing more +hit). Sbv only affects Shield Slam and Damage Shield reactive threat. There is also pure strength which gives both sbv (at pretty gimp rate, but still) and ap for Revenge, TC, CB, SW and Devastate. http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/42653-gearing-threat-wotlk-guide-hit-expertise.html seems to value expertise and hit higher than other threat stats too, I do not know though if this is based on "gut feeling" or some math.

Personally I am stacking strength and shield block value on my trash/heroic set, but only after I am capped on both hit and expertise against lvl 72 mobs.

On my boss threat set I am capped with hit and hard capped with expertise, that doesn't leave a whole lot room for adding + sbv items, I think only items with sbv in my threat set are t7.5 head and Waistguard of the Tutor. I would use more if I could avoid harming my hit, expertise, or gimping survivability to silly levels.