View Full Version : Naxx 10 question..... and Rant!
02-22-2009, 07:57 PM
Ok, so tonight my guild tried Naxx 10 for the first time. Now there's a couple of things to know here. First, We had only 6 capable guildies available, so we had to PUG some DPS. Second, only 1-2 of us had ever been in Naxx before. I consider myself to be fairly well geared to do 10 man. (little light on avoidance, but it's getting better)
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Zrakkak)
We got through Anub'Rekhan in 3 tries, mainly due to the OT pulling the guards to the wrong side of the room, so I ran the locust swarm right by him. DOH!
Faerlina we one shot, she was cake. Seriously one of the easiest fights I've seen.
Now, Maexxna....... 6 tries, 6 wipes...... I was running at 36khp buffed. Each and every time we failed during her enrage phase. We just didn't have the dps to get her down in just 1 web wrap. So we called it. You live and you learn, right? Anyway, now for my rant :mad:
I'm on a fairly low pop server, so filling pug spots is spotty at best, and you go with what you can get. BUT..... if you can only pull 1k dps, why even put yourself out there for a Naxx group?! (I know we have some blame here, even taking them with us, but beggars can't be choosers.) We had subtlety rogue pulling 976 dps, a lock with 1044, and an ele shaman at 1250 or so. All 3 were pugged. I was doing 1450, and I don't have a good weapon yet.
I can live with wiping from time to time, stuff happens, ya know? But when your crappy dps is blaming the healers for not being able to keep me alive during a frenzied web wrap, THAT pushes my buttons. Our healers were both at 1900 sp plus, and both have Naxx experience. At the end of the day, I wish we had had the ability to punt those guys and grab others, but the server pop just isn't there.
Oh well, I guess we just work on gearing some more guildies and this crap won't happen. I just needed to vent to a group that know's it's not always the tank or healer's fault....;)
02-22-2009, 08:11 PM
PUG DPS can be a nightmare. Every now and then you'll get a good one and it can really push some of your guild DPS to up their game...no one likes being out DPS'd by a PUG! You can Armory DPS to get a rough idea of how they'll perform, but unfortunately no matter how good the gear is sometimes the player is just down right bad.
Regarding Maexxna, we had a little trouble with getting her down in one enrage phase too when we first started Naxx. If you're having the trouble, try using an Indestructible Potion (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40093) once she enrages to soak up some of the damage. I would pop one of those, Shield Wall on the first wrap and Last Stand + Enraged Regeneration the second one. I'm not sure what healers you're running, but a pally can Hand of Sacrifice (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=6940) + bubble the third if you're still short on DPS, but at this point your healers are probably pretty low on mana as it is.
Anyways, better luck next week with the PUG DPS!
Bad DPS is one of the worst problems I've encountered in this expansion. I simply don't see (with the proliferation of DPS meters - I can't recall the last time I've done an instance with PUGs where at least one of them hasn't had meters) how people can not realise how badly they're performing, and simultaenously care so little that they don't do anything about it.
Especially considering (somewhat conversely to tanks and to a degree healers) that playstyle makes such little difference in relation to how well they perform, compared to gear, you would think that it would be easier to do a good job, but sadly, it seems not.
02-25-2009, 10:35 PM
I got invited to a pug heroic azjul nerub, I was top dps as druid tank (1900 overall) which is fine, I am used to outdpsing puggers. But the warlock was putting out 425 dps and doing everything possibly wrong during boss fights. After our first wipe on the final boss I asked if everyon knew the fight, the lock said yes and proceeded to stand right next to me and took a pound and died. It was just frustrating that someone puts such little effort into playing the game. If you do 425 dps you belong in regular level 80 instances, not heroics.
02-26-2009, 09:51 AM
If you do 425 dps you belong in regular level 80 instances, not heroics. TBC called, it wants the mediocre dps back. :)
02-26-2009, 12:54 PM
I completely agree. Almost everyone I've PuG'd with has recount/damage meters and it seems they either use it wrong or to stroke their e-peen when in a group of players worse then them.
Within my guild, I am used to being 2nd on recount, but it becomes a little concerning when I'm running heroics as part of a PuG and my DPS as a Paladin tank is #1.
Another thing I find annoying about PuGs, that I wanna add to the original post, When DPS steals aggro of the tank (myself) and gets squashed, it immediately becomes the healers fault. And when they have annoying mods that call out for heals when they get low is another one that bothers me quite a bit. I've died in PuG raids cause someone's mod announced a player being low and health and the healer immediately turned to heal them, I got stunned/silenced and couldn't throw up HS and took a big blow and before that could be healed thru (which wouldn't have been a problem had the healer stayed on MT) I got smacked again and killed.
Three guesses who started complaining about how horrible "this PuG" is...
DPS needs to understand that they are a little more expandable then tanks.
03-02-2009, 02:39 PM
With Maex we stop DPS around 33% so we get webbed, then once we are out we continue DPSing to avoid that wipe. We are casual raiders and this is always a 1 shot boss doing it this way.
03-02-2009, 03:37 PM
If your DPS can't kill Maexxna after 1 web wrap after she enrages, get your offtank to taunt it off of you and pop his CDs right before the 2nd wrap goes off. Now...if you're DPS can't kill it after that 2nd wrap, your DPS should go back to Heroics and stop raiding until they get better gear.
03-03-2009, 07:20 PM
Zrakkak, your situation is very much like our own. We've often had trouble filling spots (less and less, though) and we're a very casual, friendly guild, so Naxx hasn't been the faceroll for us that reading Tankspot would suggest. Our server isn't low pop (quite high, actually) but we're an Aussie guild on a US server, so we play in off-peak times.
We've had to pug DPS regularly too, and found a really wide variety. A fury warrior putting out 3600dps who was mostly just there for the fun of it and refused to roll on loot. A DK who decided pulling would happen when HE wanted, regardless of mana and health. A fire mage who did approximately 800dps.
The funny thing is of those it was the mage who was the best fit and had the best attitude, fun, friendly, not pushy or impatient. As a result he was only one who came with us multiple times. Most recent time he topped Recount the whole run, and later asked if he could join the guild. Which we were happy to do.
Sometimes the people you PUG are people you're helping to gear up, and their 1000DPS might be 3500 next week, and even if they don't go as far as joining your guild they will remember the last time they ran with you and had a lot of fun.
For the record our major DPS embarrassment is in guild - a Warlock who does 900DPS. Honestly, how can you NOT know your own DPS (especially when I blast it into raid channel for everyone to see) and if you know, how can you not want to improve?!
03-04-2009, 09:23 PM
I personally note two different cases. There's the one where they geniunely don't understand why their DPS is bad, and the one where they don't care. I've done a 10man Naxx with this setup (http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=5f2ghmbc4p000000000000000000000000000000). The druid MTed all the single-tank fights. Overall damage done rankings were 1) Ret, 2) Feral, 3) Balance. 4) Elemental. There wasn't much of a gear difference between any of the DPS. They all rationalize this by believing two things that boggle the mind, that Retribution is massively overpowered, and that tank DPS is supposed to equal true DPS. They believed that 2k DPS in a raid was good, when in essentially full epics and buffs twice that shouldn't be uncommon. And then there are people who just believe bosses should fall over and give them loot and that hunter is too hard and too underpowered.
But yeah. If Maexxna is an issue, stall so you get a web wrap right before 30%. If you have a Bloodlust, pop it then. Any paladin is a big help, even the Retadin can survive using HoS on you, and is much more disposable.
03-04-2009, 09:41 PM
I'm assuming your a paladin tank, if so what you can do is get your other tank to tank it for the whole fight, wait till she web wraps just before enrage.
Just before she wraps during enrage, put hand of sacrifice on the MT and bubble. If you have Divine Guardian you will take 60% of the MT's damage. However if you know that your group needs 2 wraps while enraged to get her down, either replace the DPS or spread out your CD's.