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Turmoil
02-21-2009, 05:53 PM
I was thinking this evening. Every class has its idiots. There are fools everywhere, people who don't know how to play, people who don't care, people who seem to enjoy wrecking others' days.

But, am I the only one that has encountered the phenomenon that 90% of warrior players seem to be insufferable, drooling asshats? I mean, a lot more than other classes. I come on tankspot and it's this glorious haven of reasonable, intelligent people who play the class. I look in game and start to feel ashamed that I play a warrior.

Whether it's the self-righteous prot who insists he should MT just because he's a warrior, the TG furies that constantly overaggro when they could easily control it, the pvp-crazed asshat that purely enjoys ganking lower-level clothies, there are many breeds. Again, yes, there are similar styles of thought in players of other classes, but it seems to me that it is, largely, warriors.

Anyone else feel this way? I mean, is it a server-type-based phenomenon? I play on a PvP server. I was on a PvE server before wrath, and I'm sure I don't remember quite as many asshats, though I could be mistaken. Or is it just luck-of-the-draw? Or could it actually exist- are warriors that easy to level? Here I thought most of the faceroll buttonsmashers would have rolled to deathknight by now...?

Any thoughts....

Ciderhelm
02-21-2009, 05:57 PM
To avoid flaming, it might be worth it to point out that you're also a Warrior, and this isn't a class-vs-class thread. :p

I've had a lot of good experiences w/ Warriors, but I also haven't had bad experiences recently with any particular class.

Turmoil
02-21-2009, 06:28 PM
Ah, sorry Cider ^^

Was just speaking to a friend and he suggested it might be because I notice players of my own class more - eg. he notices what other druids are doing badly more than he'd notice a mage playing like crud. I'm not entirely convinced, since I don't have the first clue about dpsers, but it does indeed hurt deep inside when I'm healing warrior tanks on my priest. I always find myself trying to resist "suggesting" how to play (i.e. use goddamn thunderclap, and then maybe I won't get healing aggro and die trying to keep you up)...

OnourisofRavencrest
02-21-2009, 06:34 PM
Was just speaking to a friend and he suggested it might be because I notice players of my own class more

My guess is this.^

Kind of like when you buy a car that you don't much see on the road and then all of the sudden see your brand of car all over the place. You just notice things better that are more familiar to you.

Durandro
02-21-2009, 06:37 PM
It's true. Sadly.

A friend of mine told me several times that I'm the only Warrior she's met that she can get along with. The rest of them are rude, arrogant and insufferable egos.

But then maybe she was buttering me up a bit. Who knows.

boddey_boy
02-21-2009, 06:42 PM
dude, like real life WoW indeed has rather unplesent people. purly because people in real life are playing these chars, in my realm the steriotype for arrongence is another class (wich i wont tell). but then also you see at the end of nearly every instance a dps meter go up and the only char as a prot warr u are out dpsing is the healer :( not a huge ego boost, at the end everyone says "great heals no wipes great heals", never "holy crap u held 6 mobs and took no dmg" "great tanking", so mabye the percistance for these others to get MT position is a cry for attention or even recgontion for all the hours of hard work they have put in there char.

Durandro
02-21-2009, 06:45 PM
People normally only say 'good heals' when the dps are requiring more healing then the tank. Which isn't a good thing.

Otherwise the healer is the unsung hero, again and again.

Edgar
02-21-2009, 06:46 PM
It's an interesting thing to think about. I think it's partly the class mainly the role.

The class thing I say is because when you pick your class for the first time for most classes you really don't know much about them. Leaving reading the information text at the right aside, you may now that a hunter probably uses a ranged weapon or that a mage probably shoots magic stuff and you also know a warrior, we have all seen a warrior in a movie, big sword, maybe shield and sword, very strong heroic person. We know what we're getting into, we have a brief idea of what the warrior class is probably doing.

As I wrote this and re-read it I had forgotten what my class-part of my theory was but I think it was that quite some immature people get into warriors. Sorry.

As far as the role part of my theory (I remember that part). It's because they're the tank, they are the leader of the group and without them the group won't get far, an ego builds up and they develop sort of a "They need me, therefore I can be a jerk to them, if they complain I can leave, I'm the tank, people need me it's not like I can't find another group"-mentality. Also they don't go towards the summoning stone because they feel better or more important than the other roles in the group.

That of course is also found in any other class but I think it's mostly the tanks that have this elitist attitude.

Jalousie
02-21-2009, 06:47 PM
I agree with the sentiment that familiarity breeds contempt. I care more when I come across a warrior being a pain because that kind of behaviour breeds stereotypes. If I get an arrogant paladin or a whiny rogue in a PUG with me, whatever. It's like the way badly-behaved British people abroad will always be a hundred times more tiresome to me than any other nation - because it's my own and I notice more.

Roana
02-21-2009, 07:02 PM
Since I've been playing my priestess a lot recently, I can testify first-hand to the fact that lack of maturity is not class-specific. Examples from today:

In party chat:


[Protection Paladin]: crowd controls for pansies and prot worrios

After declining a blind invite (my note has a "No blind invites, please" in it) from a feral druid:


[Feral Druid] whispers: Get out of Queue plz
To [Feral Druid]: Huh?
[Feral Druid] whispers: your queued for a dungeon!!! and you declined!!! dont waste peoples time!

These are literal transcriptions, I didn't add any spelling mistakes.

On the other hand, neither of these let me die like the fury warrior who loudly asserted that you "don't have to be prot to tank normals" -- which is true as a general rule, but obviously he was the exception to that.

boddey_boy
02-21-2009, 07:11 PM
People normally only say 'good heals' when the dps are requiring more healing then the tank. Which isn't a good thing.


WHY would the dps be needing heals, this is one thing i dont understand, normaly when a dps is needing heals is when they are not targeting off the tank. if u are the tank you are normaly the leader of the group. its not hard to press F2 then F, that will target you to attack what the tank is attacking, if you are a dps and taking dmg in a boss encounter it is often the dps are doing something wrong.
every run is a team effort, if your team has crap dps ur gona have a crap run, much like a crap run with a crap tank or healer.

Edgar
02-21-2009, 07:32 PM
Assisting the tank is not always a good idea. He might just be tabbing through mobs.

Avellian
02-21-2009, 07:41 PM
Thats what a threat meter is for. if you see yourself starting to pass the tanks threat, either target a different character or slack off on the dps. its not hard to do.

As for warriors being asslike in all apects, i believe its the players attitude. I have found many great players of all classes and even more players who are utter idiots and i ask myself every day how these players got half the gear they got because they have no idea what they are talking about. As well, it seems that different classes LOVE to give advice on how one should play their toon, when they have never even played it!

Durandro
02-21-2009, 07:44 PM
DPS don't always do what they are supposed to. Plus there's always AoE damage to think about.

But it seems like every time I'm the healer, there's a Hunter that needs spam healing constantly. And it ticks me off. Though not quite as much as the fact i need to heal myself almost as much, because every time i meet seems unable to hold aggro on casters.

Karlhungus
02-21-2009, 08:20 PM
Was just speaking to a friend and he suggested it might be because I notice players of my own class more - eg. he notices what other druids are doing badly more than he'd notice a mage playing like crud.

Well, that could be part of it, but it's different noticing when someone's not playing too well or doesn't really know what they're doing, and noticing when someone is acting like a complete asshat. You know what I mean?

boddey_boy
02-21-2009, 11:39 PM
But it seems like every time I'm the healer, there's a Hunter that needs spam healing constantly. And it ticks me off. Though not quite as much as the fact i need to heal myself almost as much, because every time i meet seems unable to hold aggro on casters.

holding aggro on casters is hard, when there are more then 3 casters a prot warr will have to look at cc'ing the 4th caster. what i do in a situation with 3 casters is use heroic throw on the first target charge and shield slam the 2nd then walk over to the 3rd and hold the mob there bringing all the casters together where i can spam clap, shock and cleave to hold aggro on the whole mob.
one thing i love about being a prot warr is in pvp i laugh at a warlock's who crit themselfs for 15k after i use spell reflect :P

Utan
02-22-2009, 01:58 AM
To be honest, I think the original post topic really depends on the company you keep. If you are doing a lot of PUGs, you're going to run into a lot of jerks, regardless of class/spec. I avoid PUGs like the plague for specifically that reason. Two things I refuse to deal with in any group situation are arrogance and ignorance.

Zyffyr
02-22-2009, 03:40 AM
After declining a blind invite (my note has a "No blind invites, please" in it)

I learned quite a while ago that people don't read those notes. They see your class, and if they want more info they send a tell.

When I go LFG on my priest I specify "Holy" or "healer". When I go LFG on my Warrior I list "Prot" or "Tank". On my Paladin, "Ret" or "DPS". Even with that, 9 times out of ten I will be asked "What spec are you?"

Only when I play my mage or hunter do I not have to deal with that.

Turmoil
02-22-2009, 04:30 AM
... and you also know a warrior, we have all seen a warrior in a movie, big sword, maybe shield and sword, very strong heroic person. We know what we're getting into, we have a brief idea of what the warrior class is probably doing. ...

I like this argument. I suppose younger/less mature players, especially males, can see a warrior and find the ideal male stereotype - strong, brave, etc. I'm intrigued. I might try to start collecting gender data. Not that I'm saying men are more likely to be asshats, I mean, I'm a total bitch sometimes if I'm in a bad mood (oh, sorry, couldn't taunt that mob eating your face... it was on cooldown...), but it's got to be a percentage issue, and far fewer women play than men.



Well, that could be part of it, but it's different noticing when someone's not playing too well or doesn't really know what they're doing, and noticing when someone is acting like a complete asshat. You know what I mean?

This is very true indeed. I'll slap my friend around with it when he pops up again.



To be honest, I think the original post topic really depends on the company you keep. If you are doing a lot of PUGs, you're going to run into a lot of jerks, regardless of class/spec. I avoid PUGs like the plague for specifically that reason. Two things I refuse to deal with in any group situation are arrogance and ignorance.

Unfortunately we even have one or two in-guild, amongst a very good overall community. Maybe it's bad luck, but it's one of the things that really got me thinking. It's the arrogance that gets my goat, and it always comes with a healthy serving of the ignorance. It's true, I do pug quite a bit, to try and get the guild's name out there on the server and encourage recruitment along, and I do encounter a lot of window-lickers. But warriors seem to be the main issue in the groups I end up in, more than other classes... perhaps it is just really bad luck.

boddey_boy
02-22-2009, 06:11 AM
ur last post got me thinking Turmoil, If there is a prot warr that is having a hard time getting a group, even a pug. maby they are asshats and nobody wants to run with them. not to brag but i would say i know my char quite well and the only time i have to find 1 person to pug is when my guild isent online or my freinds are off line. if ur good enough and ur well liked u dont go in pugs.

Roana
02-22-2009, 06:26 AM
I learned quite a while ago that people don't read those notes. They see your class, and if they want more info they send a tell.

Oh, I realize that. It doesn't excuse them being rude if you decline their blind invite, though.


When I go LFG on my priest I specify "Holy" or "healer". When I go LFG on my Warrior I list "Prot" or "Tank". On my Paladin, "Ret" or "DPS". Even with that, 9 times out of ten I will be asked "What spec are you?"

My note reads "Holy priestess. No blind invites, please." on my priestess. The purpose is twofold: One, to tell interested people what they can expect out of me. Two, to require them to communicate with me before I join the group; I use this as a first (if somewhat imprecise) filter. In the above case, that worked quite well, actually.

Jackripster
02-22-2009, 06:27 AM
Cant say ive noticed it myself, no more than any other class anyway. Perhaps warrior tanks get a little more stressed, want things done a certain way so they have halfa chance holding aggro on 5 or more mobs. Perhaps pugs get up em more often if/when they dont hold against todays instant zerg attacks?

boddey_boy
02-22-2009, 06:33 AM
Cant say ive noticed it myself, no more than any other class anyway. Perhaps warrior tanks get a little more stressed, want things done a certain way so they have halfa chance holding aggro on 5 or more mobs. Perhaps pugs get up em more often if/when they dont hold against todays instant zerg attacks?


warrs dont have much of a problem holding aggro, i can hold 7 mobs at once with no probs, that is ofcorse that all dps are targeting off me and not randomy dpsing the entiare instance.

Hengist
02-22-2009, 06:37 AM
That's because we are playing mmoRPG and warriors have low Int score. People are just role-playing, don't be harsh on us!

boddey_boy
02-22-2009, 06:38 AM
OUCH!!, lol

Jackripster
02-22-2009, 07:04 AM
warrs dont have much of a problem holding aggro, i can hold 7 mobs at once with no probs, that is ofcorse that all dps are targeting off me and not randomy dpsing the entiare instance.

i dont have too much issue either 'if' they give me just a little time. SS, TC, SW is usually enough. But they wont be able to target off me, ill be tab'ing through mobs like crazy (tho im fury these days). Some tanks might just rely on TC and SW, that wont hold much, im sure my first WW would pull aggro. However, the thing is most DPSer dont care, they are used to the strong AOE tanks and let fly straight away.

Jimbo
02-22-2009, 09:00 AM
I think a reason that may effect the disproportionately high amounts of asshat warriors in pugs you experience, is that tanks in good/highend guilds are generally required to be skilled and not complete nobjockeys to stay in that guild.
Also they are less likely to pug as they generally have the gear from heroics/badges and will tend to only go when a friend/guildie needs a hand, and sometimes being in a high end guild means you only bother logging on for raids.

I wouldn't say there is a particularly higher % of asshat warriors, just they are more likely the 1s you bump into.

Hit Me
02-23-2009, 08:04 AM
They're the Mustang drivers of WoW.

Really though, I play a warrior and I'm admittedly an asshat, but I haven't run into too many problems with other warriors though. I haven't grouped with too many warriors either though, so that might be part of it. The two fury warriors I ran with recently were pretty awesome. It's DK's and Warlocks that seem to give me the most trouble. Again, I have grouped with more Locks and DK's so I've had more chances to group with bad locks and DK's.

greendragonempire
02-23-2009, 08:12 AM
Top tier warriors are the best players in the game. We have the hardest time being the best at anything, and thus when we reach taht plateau, it is not because of easymode keyboard face rolling like druids (massive hp/armor), dks (are just op in every way), or pallies.

kolben
02-23-2009, 08:57 AM
People normally only say 'good heals' when the dps are requiring more healing then the tank. Which isn't a good thing.


WHY would the dps be needing heals, this is one thing i dont understand, normaly when a dps is needing heals is when they are not targeting off the tank. if u are the tank you are normaly the leader of the group. its not hard to press F2 then F, that will target you to attack what the tank is attacking, if you are a dps and taking dmg in a boss encounter it is often the dps are doing something wrong.
every run is a team effort, if your team has crap dps ur gona have a crap run, much like a crap run with a crap tank or healer.

Well strictly speaking, splash damage is the norm in some pretty simple instances. Heroic Old Kingdom, Azjol-Nerub, Halls of Stone, just ones that come to mind where everyone is taking a fair amount of damage at points even though they are playing properly.

To the OPs comment. I'm a nice guy, least I try to be. Warriors do attract the joe sixpack head smasher type, the ones you can picture driving a rusted trans-am and a single scratched up Metallica CD permanently in the player. Also plenty of Warriors that are the firm and caring leader type.

Argamasilla
02-23-2009, 12:41 PM
Here's an example...

Just before pull I see the mage starting to cast a spell, I charge in because my finger is already going down on the key. We all know as tanks that any dps at this point is not going to end well for the mage.

Now if this was the first time I had grouped with the mage, the yelling would commence about holding dps etc. etc.

But I know the mage and that he's going to do this. So I have taunt after the charge, and what do you know, I have a HUGE aggro lead with no rage.

The point is that people can get used to playing a certain way. When you get into a pug, everyone plays the way they are used to, and sometimes though play styles do not immeditaly gel. Everyone would like the other players to adjust to thier play style, and if they don't they are 'asshats'.

Kaad
02-23-2009, 12:44 PM
Funny, I encounter very few 'asshats' that play warriors.

Most I know seem to be nice, even funny, guys.

zander1976
02-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Hello,

I think being a tank is a position that attracks people that want to be leaders (I use that term loosely) or people that are igotistical and want to be on top. To some people being a tank is a right a passage. Not to mention the fact that every time a tank logs in they are bombarded with I need tank requests that fuels that attitude.

Being a good leader and being a good manager is a special skill that few people have. A lot of people manage by yelling or dictating but don't have the confidence to sit back and let someone else step up.

In my opinion being a true leader means looking past yourself and seeing what is best for whatever the goal might be. That includes "Is my class the best choice to tank this?", "Should I OT tonight and let someone else get experience setting the pace?" or "Should I sit out tonight all together and let them give it a shot being the leader?".

Even being the main tank for a night knowing the main tank is there ready to save you is way different then doing it alone.

Ben

Halandir
02-23-2009, 01:57 PM
My guess is this.^

Kind of like when you buy a car that you don't much see on the road and then all of the sudden see your brand of car all over the place. You just notice things better that are more familiar to you.

there's actually a scientific term for that... it's called your Reticular Activating System

Genova
02-23-2009, 04:07 PM
Top tier warriors are the best players in the game. We have the hardest time being the best at anything, and thus when we reach taht plateau, it is not because of easymode keyboard face rolling like druids (massive hp/armor), dks (are just op in every way), or pallies.


I resent that! You cant face roll and tank as a druid... sheeshe.

I bought 3 of those drinking birds, and have them hit the keys accordingly. There is no "rolling my face on the keyboard involved". You know how hard it is to time those birds to hit the keys at just the right time?

Lexxaa
02-23-2009, 04:21 PM
guys! seriously! just read Dark Legacy Comics (http://www.darklegacycomics.com/152.html) and Donald provides all the reasons why warriors seem to have a higher number of more unusual people playing them >.>

'mouf leakers' comes to mind

Baenhoof
02-24-2009, 09:55 PM
In my experience, its usually mages and more recently, DKs who are rampant with the asshattery.
The mage who opens up with Pyroblast (or whatever madness they use nowadays), the DK who will pop Army of the Dead right as you pull the boss in a heroic, even a paladin who SWEARS he doesnt have Righteous Fury on (I can see it on your buff list, dude)- then all of these dps get mad when they die (I can only taunt off one of you, and didnt have any rage due to the DK's AotD to do much else).
The warriors I've played with on my server are generally pretty nice guys, even if their playing skill isnt top-notch.

I'm a warrior, and I used to be a total jerk when pugging. The dps got a schpiel at the beginning of the instance about what not to do- that right there puts a foul taste in everyone's mouth. I would boot people and replace them as I saw fit without a word if they did even the slightest thing 'wrong.'
It was when I was new to tanking and very unconfident in my skills. Now that I know what I'm doing and fairly confident in myself, I'm more relaxed when I tank and a LOT friendlier.

I have to admit- my warrior was my first toon in WoW, and I initially rolled him (now a her) because, like every other game I'd ever played, I thought the warrior was the 'easy' class, and I wanted something simple to learn the game with. Equip weapons, smash til dead kind of idea.
Christ was I ever wrong :rolleyes:
Shoulda picked a paladin ;)

Sagern
02-24-2009, 10:51 PM
i find stupidity and plain big egos in all classes, maybe cause ive played most of them but lately i think dps DKs are taking the cake in any pugs i run nowadays...75% of them took a double dose of stupidity and ego. I'm to a point where i won't invite one unless they have been vouched for by friends or guildies.

Alecard
02-25-2009, 06:09 AM
I'm a smartass, I admit, but I try not to be a bitch until someone does something twice that I don't like.

I always seem to get stuck with "younger" tanks, when I pug VoA/OS, and so I usually keep quiet.

It's always frustrating though when you're tanking, and everyone's doing good, and the OT suddenly decides he wants to tank and taunts the boss off you, constantly. It makes me wish that you could type letters into someone's brain such as "DO NOT TAUNT WHEN IT'S NOT TIME TO TAUNT."

We wiped several times due to that, and the response after I "politely" asked why they kept taunting X boss was always "I can tank better than you, you suck."

Really? Thanks for that, that's why nobody was dead until YOU screwed us up!

Ugh.