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SS2Maximilian
02-21-2009, 03:53 AM
Hello there, just registerd to Tankspot and I need a little hand with my DK tank.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Kaelquelas)

I noticed lately that I just can't MT in raids, aside from VoA which is fairly easy. All the times in Naxx and OS I have to be the OT, which I don't really mind but I have to move on eventually...

So the problem is this: What is the problem with my equipment? I believe its the sockets and the enchants but which ones exactly? And I know I have a lot of stamina, I followed a stupid advice by someone and took a lot of it, so I probably need to replace almost all of my sockets...so I need an advice on which one to replace and all that.

Thanks.

Edit: Also, if you think something's wrong with my spec...please point it out. ^^

NexsusTheFrostDeathKnight
02-21-2009, 04:46 AM
First thing that came to my mind is that I hate you talent spec. also you have a parry gem in your shoulder pad, replace it with say a purple dodge/stam.
also replace your relic for the icy touch one. aside from that you are in epic gear, which I am envious of >..>

Fix that talent tree though... It seems so badly put together... whats your fav talent tree, and then work from their, 5/8/5 is always the basic foundation, just pic your playstyle and go from their.

SS2Maximilian
02-21-2009, 05:23 AM
Thanks for the quick tip. Also, I do happen to have a parry gem on my neck aswell...maybe I should replace it aswell.

And I thought of taking a different relic than the Icy Touch one because I'm already defense capped. Unless you think it will help me a lot toward mitigation, which will be the reason I will take it.

Now about a talent tree...I used to be a Blood DK in the beta and before I specced to tank at 80. I could use a little suggestion toward a Blood spec if nobody minds. ^^

AK404
02-21-2009, 07:02 AM
Some suggestions from a frost spec DK that sucks with UH builds:

Never, ever, ever gem, gear, or even pay any heed to Parry. Forceful Deflection is pretty much all you need in that direction. Pay more attention to Dodge or general Avoidance.

Get a Chained Military Gorget. Yes, it's that good.

Replace your Stoneskin Gargoyle rune for a Swordshattering rune. I know what I said before, but the bonus Swordshattering gives to Parry isn't subject to diminishing returns.

Less Stamina, more hit and expertise. All that HP does you no good if you can't find a way to keep threat.

Like the previous poster, your talent tree bugs the everliving crap out of me, and not because I'm an Frost aficionado. If you're easily offended, please stop reading now, tldr, and search for "Unholy DK Tank" on the forums. Otherwise, let's get started:

I can understand where you're coming from, maybe. Every talent looks good on its own, and I'm sure you want to be a massive threat against magic-users, but what you need to consider is how every talent works in conjunction with other talents.

For example, let's start with Blood...

...do you really need Rune Tap? Do you distrust your healers that much? That's one Blood rune that could've been used for Pestilence, Blood Boil, 1/3 of DND, all of which contribute to your TPS. Rune Tap doesn't. Rune Tap is sort of a "filler" point when I make DPS builds, but it has no place in my tanking builds. Healers are there for a reason.

...read the description to Spell Deflection again: it's dependent on your chance to Parry. Doesn't that seem a bit chancy to you, and honestly, when's the last time you've been targeted by a direct-damage spell? AFAIK, most spells from raid bosses are AOE.

Personally, I would have gone with Blade Barrier, Bladed Armor (in other words, the essentials), and then stopped: ten points and that's all.

Then we work our way into Frost: you went 10 points in just to get Lichborne? Lichborne is nice, but you need to weigh the advantages you get from that talent against what you're giving up to get it. Consider this: you're giving up 10 points for Lichborne, so you have to make sure that they're points well-spent. Toughness is good. Black Ice is...look, you're not a Frost spec, so why? The only ability you have that inflicts Frost damage is Icy Touch, so why burn five points to increase its damage when you've got better options in front of you? Personally, I would have gone with Improved Icy Touch to slow down your target's attack speed, thus lowering their collective DPS against you. You don't have to if you don't want to, but give it a try. No Lichborne, eight points into Frost.

That would leave 52 points for...

Unholy:

Because the bulk of your points are in Unholy, I will assume (yes, very dangerous, I know) that you'll probably slide into a deep unholy build as comfortably as a La-Z boy recliner.

Morbidity: good talent if you seriously use DND every 15 seconds (I know I don't), but otherwise...no. Unless you like using Death Coil, which you would if you were deep Unholy.

Unholy Command: why? If you need a taunt, use Dark Command with its 8-second cooldown. Those two points are better-spent into Epidemic.

Outbreak: I'm not qualified to give you a reason to not take this skill, but I do know that On a Pale Horse is not worth it unless you're purely PVP. My personal opinion would be to drop three points into...actually, I'll just throw you a link.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMZhxZfghctcog00Mcout)

Keep in mind that I play Frost. I suck at Unholy, but if I had to do it, it might look something like this. Note that there are two points into Two-Handed Weapon Specialization, which means that I'm actually recommending 12 points into Blood, but those two points were more or less floating around doing nothing. My bad.

Shadow of Death: OK, free Strength and Stamina is never a bad thing, but why go into Master of Ghouls? I don't care if it's just a point, when's the last time you needed a pet to help you keep threat?

Magic Suppression. Spell Deflection...am I seeing a common theme here? If you're looking to tank a mage, then you've got some point-free options in front of you: Mind Freeze. Strangulate. Arcane Torrent. Anti-Magic Shell.

Anti-Magic Zone. Same thing. What rattles me is that you've spent about 9 points to be effective against mages, but that's 9 points that could've been spent elsewhere. Except if you wanted to go all the way with this "mage-hunter" theme, you'd just take up a Rune of Spellshattering.

As it is, your build is too defensive, so screw mitigation because IMO, you've got more than enough; you're using a big two-hander for a reason, start tweaking your build to cause some damage! For example, I've noticed that a lot of your talents in the UH tree are dedicated to boosting the power of your Death Coil, DND, and Blood Boil, yet you're cleanly avoiding what I consider must-have skills like Bone Shield (which I believe reduces all damage by 20%), Crypt Fever (which boosts damage from diseases), Ebon Plaguebringer (which boosts damage from all magic), Scourge Strike (which effectively replaces Obliterate), and Unholy Blight, which I consider ZOMGWTFBBQ for keeping AE threat with runic power.

With 51+ points to burn into Unholy, you've got a ton of threat options open to you. Open a pull with DG into DND with DND, single-threat with Death Coil and Scourge Strike, AOE threat with Crypt Fever-enhanced diseases, Unholy Blight, Corpse Explosion, buffed defense with a glyphed Bone Shield, enhanced damage with Necrosis and BCB...check the forums for TankSpot-approved UH builds, and watch your threat climb.

That's my advice.

Note, however, that I do suck with unholy DK. I play Frost (and I only tank heroics with it).

PS: Recommended sigil for an unholy build would be Sigil of Arthritic Binding (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40875). It should take you all of a day to obtain.

SS2Maximilian
02-21-2009, 11:43 AM
Thanks for the constructive post dude. And no, I ain't easily offended, you are very right infact.

At first, I wanted to tank with Frost, but it seemd somewhat hard and different. I was too used to Blood, so I went with something hybird that wouldn't change it too much. The spec I was using was very effective in HC before I started to get all the gear for 10man raids.

Now, I took Lichborne mainly because it helps against fears and charming effects. This might sound dumb, but if I'm right it can be dispelled by the other group members, but I took it just incase, so I guess I can just kill it and not use it.

I used Rune Tap for GROUP healing. I asked the raid leader to put me with the main group and whenever hard moments came and we needed healing, I used it to heal all the group I was with.

Now, I wanted to go Blood at first. Mainly because of Heart Strike. This might sound lazy, but I just can't stand Scourge Strike or Frost Strike, mainly because Scourge Strike uses an Unholy rune and a Frost Rune which hinder my ability to use Death Strike (I love that ability ^^). And Frost Strike is annoying because it requires runic power, which I sometimes forget to use and/or rather waste on Death Coil. I like Heart strike because its as easy as it sounds: A replacment to Blood Strike, except you attack one more target.

Also, I didn't know that the Venture Coins vendor sells sigils...

Anyways, whats the main up/down for each spec? I saw that Blood have more Experise/Stamina/Strength, Frost have only Expertise bonus and Unholy have a medium amount of each, but I didn't check each spec fully (Mainly because I'm just a...noob with specs, so I really have no idea. ><)

scouser
02-21-2009, 12:33 PM
I disagree if you are going frost about lichborne....it has saved my ass more times than not, particularly if your healer gets silenced/stunned. even more so when you have a full rune power bar (which should be almost never, but sometimes you can't help it).

You can setup a pretty easy macro to cast lichborne, target self, cast death coil, return to last target....then I have another one setup for target self, cast death coil, return to last target, which you can spam over and over again during the lichborne effect. Basically its a self healing thing that lasts as long as lichborn and your rune power bar, get the death coil glyph and you can almost full heal yourself in a matter of seconds... the key to this is deathcoil heals an undead target which is what lichborne does to you.

I have finished off bosses this way when everyone has dropped and I am last man standing and you need that last little bit.

I dunno....maybe its a gimmick thing, but I figure if it helps keep you alive longer its beneficial for a tank.....

ideally your healer does his/her job, but reality says they sometimes miss a crucial heal everynow and then, particularly in PUGs.

dead tank = wipe

AK404
02-21-2009, 02:13 PM
Scouser:

Course, your healer should also be out of range of that kind of stuff. When I tank, I simply do not bother with any kind of self-heal because my DK cannot sustain the level of healing she requires and sustain my usual TPS at the same time. Either it's runic power or a rune that goes to 'waste': that's a pestilence, blood boil, death coil, unholy blight, corpse explosion, or frost strike that's not being used. The more time I spend healing myself is one less rotation I'm contributing to the demise of a mob.

Additionally, as a tank, I fully expect to be the first one to die, not the last, and the healer should always be next on the list. If the healer is still eating silence/stun after I die once, either I'm not keeping sufficient threat, or I have a stupid healer; the first is my fault, the second isn't, but either way, when I invest my talent points, I think about making life easier for a good tank, not for making up for a bad one.

If you are frost, then Lichborne is good. I never said it wasn't. What I said was that if you're not going frost, then Lichborne is not optimal, as you're always going to find yourself spending more points than you need to get to it. At the very least, you're wasting two points to get to it, which is two points that could have been spent elsewhere.

OP:

Wait a sec...group healing? What glyphs are you using?

As for specs, what it seems to me is that you should read some of the TankSpot articles and forum posts on the DK, as they'll explain things far better than I ever could.

SS2Maximilian
02-21-2009, 03:47 PM
Glyph of Rune Tap - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43825)

Glyph of Raise Dead - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43673)

Glyph of Pestilence - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43672)

Glyph of Death and Decay - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43542)
(Used that one before the "Cower in fear" effect was removed, didn't bother to swtich it.)

Glyph of Blood Tap - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43535)

Glyph of Icebound Fortitude - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43545)

AK404
02-22-2009, 02:28 AM
Hm. As a suggestion, I would strongly recommend the use of a Major Glyph of Rune Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43550) to increase the damage against whatever it is you're tanking. Given how much you'll be using Rune Strike against some major opponents (and not more than a few minor ones), it will be a major glyph slot well-spent.

However, should you find yourself leaning towards tanking as unholy, then a Major Glyph of Bone Shield (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43536)is a must-have.

SS2Maximilian
02-22-2009, 09:47 AM
Alright. Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I will be sure to put them into good effort once I pick myself a tree to follow and use.