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BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 10:01 AM
I have been tanking a few normals instances as a blood tank.

I love how my spec goes. The healing is awesome and same with the damage/TPS. However what it is greatly lacking is AOE threat.

I can pick up AOE threat fine after a period of time but to get that quick boost in threat is hard as blood tank.

So now I'm looking at frost tanking. I did a few unholy tanking and it just really doesn't suite me as well.

This was a quickly made spec as a topic starter to build around it.
11/50/10 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0E0oZ0gxzhedMhRVosxcg). Did some reading on frost specs and some of them I added in this spec. However I know there can always be adjustments.

Question on a few points on frost tanking spec:
1. The Icy Talons/Improved Icy Talons. How much is it needed in a frost tank spec? Is it even worth it?

2. Endless Winger/Chilblains. Would the chilling effect be worth it? Would free Mind Freezes be worth it?

3. Acclimation. Is this talent worth it?

4. Frost Aura. I placed points on there as a filler but would it be better if I put them somewhere else like Endless Winter?

5. Hungering Cold. I didn't figure that this would be a good tanking talent. More of the lines of solo PvE and PvP. What do you guys think?

For the other schools I added Morbidity, cause I like the smaller CD of D&D. And I took Epidemic for the longer disease timers.

And for Bladed Armor, the more AP the more threat you get and Rune Tap for incase I need a quick heal and there isn't one coming.

I never tanked before as frost, only used the frost tree once for a solo lvling spec, but that was quickly replaced.

Inaara
02-19-2009, 10:22 AM
I have been tanking a few normals instances as a blood tank.

I love how my spec goes. The healing is awesome and same with the damage/TPS. However what it is greatly lacking is AOE threat.

I can pick up AOE threat fine after a period of time but to get that quick boost in threat is hard as blood tank.

So now I'm looking at frost tanking. I did a few unholy tanking and it just really doesn't suite me as well.

This was a quickly made spec as a topic starter to build around it.
11/50/10 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jbxZGgxzGeb0hoVostcgz). Did some reading on frost specs and some of them I added in this spec. However I know there can always be adjustments.

Question on a few points on frost tanking spec:
1. The Icy Talons/Improved Icy Talons. How much is it needed in a frost tank spec? Is it even worth it?

2. Endless Winger/Chilblains. Would the chilling effect be worth it? Would free Mind Freezes be worth it?

3. Acclimation. Is this talent worth it?

4. Frost Aura. I placed points on there as a filler but would it be better if I put them somewhere else like Endless Winter?

5. Hungering Cold. I didn't figure that this would be a good tanking talent. More of the lines of solo PvE and PvP. What do you guys think?

For the other schools I added Morbidity, cause I like the smaller CD of D&D. And I took Epidemic for the longer disease timers.

And for Bladed Armor, the more AP the more threat you get and Rune Tap for incase I need a quick heal and there isn't one coming.

I never tanked before as frost, only used the frost tree once for a solo lvling spec, but that was quickly replaced.

I'll answer your questions first.

1. It's not needed and it definetely clears up alot of talent points.. 6 to be exact.

2. No it's not worth it. 5 points that can be used elsewhere.

3. I see Acclimation as more of a gimicky talent, bottom line is there are better places to spend your points. I personally had it in my first tanking build and while I took alot less damage on Sapphiron is was of little use outside of that setting lol.

4. Frost Aura is crap crap crap. It doesn't stack with MotW, pally auras or shammy totems. A waste of two points.

5. HC is a PvP talent.

I would suggest this build, it also has a slightly higher emphasis on AoE tanking with the addition of Corpse Explosion.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZGxxzhebMhoVosx0gh0z)

Morbidity isn't required since you'll be AoE tanking with HB. HB will be your main attack. For AoE tanking it's actually a very simple rotation. IT-PS-Pestilence-HB, after that I just HB whenever it's off CD and use my Blood Runes for Pestilence. Corpse Explosion when something dies, it's fun I promise.

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 11:18 AM
I understand the morbidity point.

But what about Icy Reach?

With the extra range wouldn't it give you a easier pull, and jump start on threat?

Inaara
02-19-2009, 11:24 AM
The benefit of Icy Reach is more for the additional radius on HB rather than the extra pulling range of IT. In a perfect world you're still waiting for PS before you Pestilence, it is very important that your dps follows the kill order as Frost will not have alot of threat on all the targets until you get your first HB off.

Alternatively you can pull with HB for initial aggro which at the very least will keep the mobs off the healer and follow up with IT-PS-Pest-Pest-HB.

If you're really worried about it then you can drop the 2 points in Chill of the Grave and throw it in Icy Reach. IR is nice but it isn't required.

Inaara
02-19-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm sorry, because of Habit I included Annihilation in the build since Obliterate is my main attack when I'm Frost. I believe this build will have everything you want.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZGgxz0edMhoVosx0gh0z)

This build, unlike the previous, has Deathchill. For pulling you can pop DC and HB which should give you substantial initial threat.

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 02:33 PM
lol Well I fail at wowhead calculator linking. heh
I was using a URL of another build I was looking at and it wasn't the build I made. Sorry about that.

Here is the first one I made:11/50/10 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0E0oZ0gxzhedMhRVosxcg)

My next question is about Corpse Explosion. I can see where it can rely in VH, but what about places like nax10 or 25?
Would Rune Tap be better suited for that last point, for those "oh noes" needed quick heal?

And I'm guessing you would want to keep up Death Strike, to help the healers, and not use Obliterate. So I see why you moved the 3 points from Annihilation to Improved Icy Touch.

Inaara
02-19-2009, 03:01 PM
As a tank you should be concentrating on the mobs, not the minimal heal that you would get with a 1 point Rune Tap. If a Rune Tap is the difference between life and death then a new healer should be found. For 1 TP Corpse Explosion is the best buy available and it should definetely address the concern you had for AoE tanking.

The AoE capability provided through CE and HB definetely excell in Naxx as there are countless groups.


EDIT: In the talent link you posted you skipped out on key talents while picking up trash. Frost aura should not be in any sort of DK build ever, it just isnt worth it. Since you don't have the gear to support Obliterate, Annihilation is a waste of three talent points. Those 5 points should instead be spent in Improved IT and Glacial Rot (10% extra damage on your main ability is a big deal). And again forget Rune Tap, go with CE instead.

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 03:17 PM
Ahh thank you very much!
Going to go out and test this spec out.
heh still need to get better gear to get def capped. Its a pain to get.
Been following several gear guides like Cinderhelm's.

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 03:23 PM
I forgot to ask about glyphs.

These are the glyphs that I found that would help.
Glyph of Frost Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43543)
Glyph of Icebound Fortitude (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43545)
Glyph of Icy Touch (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43546)
Glyph of Unbreakable Armor (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43553)
Glyph of Death and Decay (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43542)

The ones I have been using from my blood tank spec that is listed is, Glyph of Icebound Fortitude and Glyph of Death and Decay. So inorder to save at least some gold, what glyph should I take as the 3rd? And or replace the other two?

Inaara
02-19-2009, 03:46 PM
I would use the top three that you listed. There are those that don't feel the need to have the IBF glyph but I don't like my oh shit button having any sort of cost whatsoever.

Vodai
02-19-2009, 03:48 PM
Icy Touch, IBF, Rune Strike would be good if you're not using Obliterate.

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Well I tested it today on normal HoL.
AoE threat was much easier. Still got to get on the habbit of the rotation. Tend to messed it up.

The trinket dropped there...bad thing some other NON-tank DK rolled on it. >.< I hate pugs.

Typhus
02-19-2009, 05:08 PM
/cast Blood Strike
/cast Rune Strike

is a good macro to use, since you more or less never are at low RP you'll use it everytime you hit BS

Inaara
02-19-2009, 05:13 PM
Yeah a dps DK stole the stam trink in AN from me, damned greedy DK's. Fortunately i was able to get it the next day ^_^. I'm glad it's working out for you. Switching up rotations always takes a little getting used to. I would suggest switching up your key bindings and making your 1-4: IT-PS-Pest-HB and get used to using 3 and 4 once IT and PS are up. In an AoE situation only the initial IT and PS are required, tab Pest keeps it up from that point on.

Inaara
02-19-2009, 05:17 PM
/cast Blood Strike
/cast Rune Strike

is a good macro to use, since you more or less never are at low RP you'll use it everytime you hit BS

I have Rune Strike Macroed to every ability and it should be macroed to every ability as it is the priority. A correct macro would look like this:

#showtooltip
/cast Howling Blast
/cast Rune Strike

Choose the ? as the icon and it will display the proper icon for the ability.

Typhus
02-19-2009, 05:18 PM
yep was just a tad to lazy to write the tooltip thingy :)

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 05:34 PM
Just a simple /cast script? No other fancy ones? Like error messages?

And the way I had my bindings was
1 - Death Grip
Shift 1 - Dark Command
2 - Frost Strike
Shift 2 - Rune Strike
3 - Plague Strike
Shift 3 - Blood Strike
4 - Icy Touch (Had a mage for vanilla wow and TBC, my instant fire blast was set to 4 and got used to put instant abilities there :D)
5 - Howling Blast
6 - Death Strike
7 - Chains of Ice (starting to wonder if I need that there)
And the rest of the bindings is just fillers of other spells.

I'll play with some new bindings and add in some macros.

And that dps DK was a noob.

During the boss fights he would put of frost presence, making it harder for me to get the aggro and kept saying about keeping him alive, forgetting the fact our healer was a good healer and kept everyone alive.

Plus I had a bad feeling about that group. We killed everything there easily (loken was surprisingly easy). But we had 2 other dps DKs and a holy paladin. The noob DK said after he rolled need that he was respecing tank at lvl 78 (was at lvl 77) and the other DK just rolled need on everything, ignoring the fact that I'm the tank main spec and they are dps main spec. Learned no more DKs in my groups. :D

Inaara
02-19-2009, 05:39 PM
Aye, death to all Death Knights!

BattleFreak
02-19-2009, 05:53 PM
Ok added some macros.

I did some adjustments to the one you posted.


#showtooltip <Ability and rank>
/script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")
/cast <Ability and rank>
/cast !Rune StrikeAdded an error message blocking code to it.
The '!' before RS prevent the macro from toggling off the RS once it has been activated, if you are spamming the button.

Also made one for Death Grip and Dark Command


/cast [nomod] Death Grip
/cast [mod:SHIFT] Dark CommandOf course what ever modifier you choose.

BattleFreak
02-24-2009, 08:16 AM
Well now that it seems that frost tanking will get nerfed in 3.1. Would this spec be good for frost tanking?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000000305250010 5203310230005101351005230000000000000000000000000&glyph=101112040605&version=9614

I hope it isn't nerfed as hard as they say. I enjoyed tanking as frost. I finally got the rotation down and was having fun. I still don't like unholy but might have to go to blood with the reduced aoe abilities. :(

Vodai
02-24-2009, 11:15 AM
I might start off with this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000000305250010 5203310230005101351005230000000000000000000000000&glyph=101112040605&version=9614

Also, sounds like there are new glyphs including one for HB as well.

Inaara
02-24-2009, 01:20 PM
The new HB glyph might be amazing. With the nerf to HB's bonus damage though I don't think it will be able to compete with Obliterates damage, even with a sub-par weapon. I have queued my character for the copy so I'm just waiting for it to go through. I won't have any final thoughts until I'm able to run the numbers but here is the build I'm looking at. Keep in mind that MMO's talent calculator isn't 100% accurate such as BotN still being a 5 point talent, it should only be 3.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000000305250013 5203300200023131351035000000000000000000000000000&glyph=101312040605&version=9614

The above build takes both Acclimation and Imp Frost Presence for max mitigation. We don't know what Ulduar will offer in terms of magic damage/fights yet but I prefer Acclimation and IFP over Icy Reach and Rime.

Rime loses it's splendor with the new HB rune and if with the new Pestilence glyph (Unsure if they're adding a new one that is major or just changing the minor Glyph) you can keep up both diseases with 1 blood rune, disease management will be a thing of the past.

Likewise if the minor Glyph is changing instead of needing a Major Glyph spot then there using Glyph of HB would be an easier decision to make. The more I think of it the less impressed I am lol but I was pretty stoked when I first saw it. Seems more like a gimick as time passes. Any way you look at it IT would only be used on the initial pull if at all and pestilence would do the rest of the work for the rest of the fight.

Glyph setup would look like this.
Frost Strike
Obliterate
Howling Blast or Pestilence if it's a major.

IBF is useless now and has become a PvP Glyph lol.... so sad.

My mind is a jumbled mess right now, some of what I said may not make sense lol.

BattleFreak
02-25-2009, 06:00 AM
I just wonder about that spec Inaara, cause you only put 3 points in Blood of the North, so its then only a 60% chance for a death rune.

I'm on the fence with Improved Frost Presence. Its cool that there is no more auras (that idea stunk anyways) but the only thing there that helps with tanking is the -4% (with 2 points) of added spell damage taken. Other than that I would think that would be a DPS talent or solo talent rather than tanking. It only gives the 10% bonus health in blood or unholy presence.

I'm still focusing on the HB spec/rotation rather than Obliterate, since I'm not that far geared yet (now 533 def, finally got that darn trinket!).

For the new glyph for howling blast, I'm wondering about that will work.
mmo-champion says that it will put frost fever on targets hit by howling blast, but what will trigger first the glyph or the 50% damage boost on the spell? If it triggers second then we won't get the 50% damage but the 50% damage increase will only happen the next time we use it. It would be nice as a disease spreader.

The glyph for IBF I'm really frowning on. I greatly enjoyed the free IBF. This was a big nerf for tanking. GG blizz on that one.:mad: So I guess I have to replace that with the D&D glyph.

Inaara
02-25-2009, 09:39 AM
I only put 3 points in BotN because Bliz said they were changing it to 3 points, I was able to ge on the PTR last night and it is still 5 points so that idea is scratched for now. Maybe they'll change it in the future.

I took Imp Frost Aura for maximized mitigation, this is with Ulduar in mind.

Due to tha fatal errors I was unable to test the new glyph however I'm almost certain that damage will be dealt before frost fever is applied so you won't get the bonus damage on the first one. You have to remember though that it will still be affecting everything hit by HB with Frost Fever, that saves you from having to Pestilence and alows you to use your Blood Runes to BB. AoE tanking will be as simple as HB-BB-BB-HB.

And finally yes.... IBF not being free makes me a sad panda, but at least it's an easy choice for which glyph to replace for HB lol.

Laidback
02-25-2009, 10:22 AM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZGxxzhedMhoVosxcg)
Sometimes i spec into acclamation...sometimes i dont.

As you can see im trying to spec into some more damaging abilities...since I have good gear I can afford to drop some points in defensive abilities like Acclamation.

I have a deiiferent spec for every day of the week...but these have always worked perfectly for me.

Inaara
02-25-2009, 10:39 AM
oops?