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Skyborn
02-17-2009, 08:27 AM
My guilds been having a lot of trouble moving up to Sarth+2. Every week we do about 8 solid attempts before deciding to just call it and do 1 drake instead. 1 drake is a joke compared to the trouble 2 drakes is giving us.

Our group make-up is not very balanced but our 10 man squad normally consist of:

Warrior Tanking Sartharion (me)
Pally Tanking Tenebron / Vesperon
DK Tanking Whelps / Elementals
Pally Healer on Warrior Tank
Druid Healer on Pally Tank
Shaman Healer on Raid
2 Hunters
1 DK DPS
1 Shaman DPS

Occasionally there's a mage in that mix but he's not online consistently.

And then we have a priest alt in the raid group who just waits outside the portal to give us fort and shadow protection before every attempt.

In terms of DPS, our DK usually sits around 4.5-5k. The shaman is at around 4k. One hunter is slightly below 4k dps and then the other is at 2.5k dps. This is low, and we're looking to replace him if he doesn't step it up. When the mage comes he's at 4-5k dps. The DK tank and the Pally tank are at about 2.5k dps.

Last night on our last 4 attempts we managed to get Tenebron down consistently (although usually we have to deal with 3 waves of whelps which I think is our problem) within 10 seconds of Vesperon landing. We can not get Vesperon down. Twilight Torment is pretty much 1 shotting our AOE tank. He keeps saying that when Twilight Torment is up (iron maiden from Diablo, right?) every time his AOE ticks on the whelps he's taking a ton of damage and he's going down even though he's specced full prot.

People aren't consistently getting hit by waves or swirlies, although occasionally stuff happens and we wipe it up. But on the whole, that's not our problem. It's the twilight torment in conjunction with the whelps.

Is the solution to simply burn Tenebron faster? We usually bloodlust the second our pally has secured aggro on him. I think the hunter needs to step it up to at least 3.5k DPS... but other than replacing him I don't really know how best to ensure we get Tenebron and his whelps down in time.

Is there anything we're missing?

After Tenebron and whelps are down, theoretically we should be sending the DPS + 1 tank + 1 Healer through the Vesperon's portal to kill his acolyte, right?

Ray
02-17-2009, 08:33 AM
(although usually we have to deal with 3 waves of whelps which I think is our problem)

3 whelp waves????

Um, you dont have the DPS for it. You cannot do this with even 2 whelp waves. Tene needs to be dying as Shad is landing (or in your case long before Vesp lands). So basically, you are carrying to many healers and you need all your DPS to be at a min of 5K with Hero up (prolly average of 4K). Even in 2D you need to get only one whelp wave or it will spell disaster for your add tank. For 2D all adds should be clear BEFORE Vesp lands.

veneretio
02-17-2009, 08:37 AM
First, I'd recommend the following tank assignment change:

Warrior - adds
DK (spec unholy) - Sartharion
Warrior - put Vigilance on DK for infinite taunts

Ideally, this is how the fight plays out:
1. DK engages Sartharion and positions
2. Tenebron lands
3. Bloodlust
4. Tenebron dies
5. Adds cleaned up
6. Vesperon lands
7. DPS DK tanks portal add with heals (add tank stays out of portal)
8. Vesperon dies
9. Sartharion dies

You really want Tenebron down before Vesperon lands. The less overlap here, the better. If you have time to start on cleaning up the whelps + fire guys while the tank is taunting Vesperon... then you're golden. But for the most part, I'd highly suggest you have the Warrior (you?) tank the whelps + fire adds as Shockwave + TC + Demo + Infinite Taunt just owns them.

Hope that helps, best of luck.

Nuberino
02-17-2009, 09:00 AM
hmmm, do you need to be 25man geared to do 10 man sarth 2D? We are planning to do 1D this week which I don't see any problem with at all, but my guild's dps numbers are no where near 4k apiece.

Skyborn
02-17-2009, 09:14 AM
A whole lotta good shit.

OK perfect! I was hoping I'd hear an alternate strat for Sarth2D because honestly it felt like we were trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. Instead of trying to muscle our way through our old strat, I think I'll try and convince my RL to try this one out. Since DK's / Pally's are better AOE tanks they kind of just threw me on Sarth as a given.

Satrina
02-17-2009, 09:34 AM
A warrior is definitely much better on add duty, and a DK is much better on Sarth.

Darksend
02-17-2009, 10:10 AM
hmmm, do you need to be 25man geared to do 10 man sarth 2D? We are planning to do 1D this week which I don't see any problem with at all, but my guild's dps numbers are no where near 4k apiece.

2 weeks ago we went into sarth with our alts 10 man 2d, 1shot no problems,

here's the catch

2 of our people werent there for trash, and missed vesperon, they both received their 1st emblem achievement when they they looted sarth, both were healers

we used a fury warrior on sarth with my vigilance on him, DK on drakes, me on adds, when all the drakes died we cleaned up any loose fire adds on my i tauned sarth the DK picked up the fire adds the remaineder of the encounter and the fury warrior helped him clean them up with tanking gear with his 2handers on

i had 3 pieces of 25 man gear at the time the other tanks had 1-2 pieces of 25 man tanking gear because it was both their offspecs


as to your question about dps, always kill shadron unless you are 100% confident in your DPS. The extra time this provides between when they 1st and 2nd drake land gives much more leeway by giving an extra 40? seconds

if you dont have tenebron dead and whelps cleaned up by the time vesperon lands (assuming killing shadron pre pull) then you do not have the DPS for 2d

watching xavs video it shows vesperon landing at 2 minutes 2 seconds, tenebron landing at 32 seconds. this means your raid (asuming 4 dps) needs 3388 DPS each not counting the tank this is very achievable with heroism, if you have that then throwing in the tanks DPS will give you the time you need to clear whelps and fire adds before vesperon lands

for comparision it took my guild 67 seconds to kill tenebron in our 10 3d last night, so heroism uptime skews this, but i did 2330 DPS on tenebron (again heroism uptime and shadron landing giving an extra extrenal rage soruce skews this slightly) but that is without sunders without battle shout or might and without UR/AM because we had a 4 caster dps group