View Full Version : Prot warrior out of ideas
im the main tank for my guild, im mostly self taught, though i use the forums, and guides on both this site and wowforums for ideas. ive befome a fairly competent tank but im running into a few problems.
first is rage. for some reason with my rotation im having rage issues unless i have multiple mobs or very hard hitting bosses on me. this is only a problem with 2 of my dps who are in the 4-5k dps range. on occasion they have to slow down to not take aggro from me.
most of the time i have no problems with threat but in my mind my rage builds to slow.
my rotation is a pull with herois throw charge and shield slam, tc, cleave spamed, heroic strike spamed, shield slam revenge when they proc shockwave after i get initial threat and when it is off cd and devistate when its all thats up.
my spec and stats are here
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jaedenar&n=gramaton)
any suggestions or advice would be very welcome
02-15-2009, 10:30 PM
Remember you can use Berserker Rage to get extra rage, since fears are almost nonexistent. Other than that, welcome to Warrior tanking. For trash, heroics and the softer hitting bosses rage is a 'scarce commodity' that is easily exhausted
02-15-2009, 10:33 PM
There is a rather lengthy discussion occurring on these forums about rage generation and some of the things that need to change for us warriors which you can find and read to see that you are not alone in this. Often times my dps only lives on trash pulls because the critter dies before they do. This is more common then you might think but i also can understand your issue with it. Here are just a few suggestions that maybe can help you out.
1) Make sure you have vigilance up on your dps which you know is likely to pull. Generally the rage starvation occurs on trash where there isnt a whole lot of mobs, which usually means that the target is tauntable. Sometimes letting that mage get a HUGE burst of aggro and then you taunting it off before the mage dies is a more effective method then trying to burn all your rage on your normal rotation.
2) Rage pots are oldschool and rarely used and hard to find, however they will provide you with that rage that you need when you need it and are usable fairly often. I dont resort to these much, but there are times where it was worth having.
3) Try and adjust your gear to push for a bit more hit/expertise and block value where able. Having strong shield slams and having nothing ever miss is going to make your overall threat generation MUCH better.
I believe that you probably already knew all 3 of these but there really isnt a whole lot more reliable advice I can give. The only other thing i can think of is to tell your dps to stop being a bunch of sissies and make it so everyone in the group is doing 4k dps... that way the mob wont live long enough to need real tanking.
02-15-2009, 11:29 PM
Its gonna lower your health obviously but your really lacking in expertise, id replace a few of those +24 stam gems and put in a few of the 8 expertise 12 stam gems. Eat the rhinoliciuos wyrmsteaks for raids it adds 40 expertise, and drink the elixir of expertise.
You should see a nice threat boost.
i did more reaserch and between a few guildies found the only 2 raiders i have any trouble with were 2 mages. all my dps'ers are in the 2500 to 4000 range and when my mages hit about 3500 dps their threat goes through the roof. any other class is easy to keep threat over but one of the mages in my group even with vigalance on him just dominates in the threat charts before he hits 4k dps. just wanted to pass that along as one of the problems right now. its a screw up in the mage threat tables somewhere.:mad:
02-16-2009, 04:20 AM
in our raid we can have 3 mages and 2 hunters with dps of over 5k. (on malygos with sparks and on thadius they can hit 8k !)
Prot warriors just have to anticipate big aggro spikes and use their abilities such as taunt, mocking blow and vigilance to keep ahead.
I found that getting big threat head starts kept you someway ahead of the pack but when they are critting for 7k - 8k every 4 hits compared to your occasional 4k shield slam ...you cant afford to drop your rotation for a second.
If i stop my rotation on a boss for more than 1.5 seconds (to re-place a vigilance for eg.) the ret pallies and rogues are screaming at me and the hunter is feigning.
get your rotation down and make sure you keep going...
try and work a rend and a concussion blow in to your rotation as well as a demo shout a commanding shout and revenge revenge revenge.
Glyphs of blocking and revenge will help increase your tps.
And as said before ..EXPERTISE....
02-16-2009, 04:59 AM
Less Stamina, more Expertise/Strength/Hit. With the BS sockets, go for one of these gems instead of Stam. Maybe even go for Def/+5% Block Val Meta? That gives a nice chunk of Defense, leaving you to gem/enchant for moar threat.
Your legplates and belt are excellent threat pieces with high Strength and Block Value. Stick some +Str in them and go smash some faces.
Also, try and grab a second piece of Tier 7/7.5 as the set bonus is Godly.
What about Glyphs? What you packing in there?
Also, get some points in Cruelty, drop a couple out of Shield Spec or DeepWounds.
A side note too, I really don't like Tuskarr's Vitality for a Warrior. Either Icewalker for more threat or Pure Stam. The run speed is fine, but with Warbringer and Intervene, I'm moving around quickly enough.
02-17-2009, 07:45 AM
i am not expert but i tank a few heroics per day with no rage or aggro problems..
here is some things i do:
firstly, i have made a macro that combines charge, bloodrage, berserker rage and shield block; these have the cumulative affect of giving me about 60 rage nearly instantly as well as a guaranted revenge proc when i first charge into mobs.
so i always charge into mobs using this macro, lay down a TC/SW, then i can hit SS and revenge/HS straight away and i usually never have any problems.
in fact often i cant spend my rage fast enough and its virtually infinite.
also here is a link to my armory, i have spent points in improved charge and bloodrage and im sure this helps. The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jubei%27Thos&n=Monsolas)
i could be wrong on this too but heroic throw seems like a waste as a pulling move, i usually save it for when something occasionally pulls aggro and i can combine it with a taunt to pull something back that has gone out of melee range.
Stop spamming cleave and HS let a few well placed SS's and revenges replace the spam and anyone doing 5kdps? in an heroic is gonna be hard to keep aggro if 5k is even possible.
02-17-2009, 08:08 AM
Well alot of people dont really do this but i found it helps me alot on certain fights where the dps is right on my heels in threat
jump into berserker stance just b4 a pull cast berserking(gauranted critcal hits ect)
jump back into defensive stance now charge in and mid charge use heroic throw pop ur shield block and instantly shield slam you should also get a revenge
include a concusison blow in there with a shockwave and within a few seconds you should have such a substantual lead in threat people will never catch you
also if available use some block value gear that helps with huge shield slam crits
02-17-2009, 08:11 AM
U have really good gear, but u do need to put in u'r expertise gems, along w/ the suggested elixers and food buffs for more expertise.
That would prolly hlp u out more all around. U could definitely get more dps if u done this and maybe doing the suggestion talent spec. set forth by cider helm. U do not have a great deal of crit.. If u can get u'r crit to 7-10% it would hlp u a great deal more
Also "suggested above" the proper glyphs as well.
02-17-2009, 08:29 AM
Tell your mage to wait a little bit longer for you to establish aggro...It's better for him to wait a little bit, than to pull a mob off the bat and watch him die (therefore gimping his overall DPS).
For Trash, I usually open up with Thunder Clap > Shockwave, and then assume with the typical Rotation. I'm also using Thunder Clap/Shockwave on every cool down. The thing I like about Shockwave is 1) It generates a nice amount of threat and 2) in the current world that we live in with ZERO CC, Shockwave does provide a small amount of that and enough time for me to establish aggro on all the mobs. I also find using a MouseOver Macro for my Devastate works wonders on Trash. On bosses, I just use the typical rotation.
Also, is this for a Raid? or just merely Heroics? If your mage is pulling 5k DPS in a heroic, I am thoroughly impressed. If a raid, what are you using for an OT? I find having a high threat building OT (mine is a druid, but a DK or Pally would work great too) allows us to clear Trash much, much more efficient.
03-02-2009, 10:17 AM
If you are rage-floating properly (i.e. bloodrage out of combat when below 60-70 rage), and have the glyph for free HS after revenge (can't remember the name), then you're problems from rage generation come from too many cleaves. Cleave costs 40 rage, 37 with 3 pts in FR, with a fast tanking weapon you'll be dry in 3 sec, because you'll be using the GCD as well. Use cleave a little more sparingly, particularly in raids were it can be tougher to rage float without good communication. Try cycling your targets to spread SS a little more evenly, maybe every 3 sec after initial aggro established, switch targets, SS>Rev/HS (i have these macro'd)>Dev and switch to a new taret and repeat. And yeah, don't forget demo shout, even thoug its only a little threat, it helps your healers out and gives everyone an extra sec or two of survivability if you lose aggro (part with imp demo shout)