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orcstar
02-11-2009, 03:01 AM
I have this big argument with another officer:
It's about vanity drops in raids, and more specific about the mount that drops from Sartharion adn 3 drakes.

He wants some effort system which would drastically reduce the number of people who at start have a chance to get that mount, where I wanted just a free raidroll.
Our GM came up with some of both: a raidroll to people with higher then 80% attendance in the last 30 days, which I used to distribute the mount last week.

But this guy won't stop.

How do you guys distribute vanity items?

(and another problem atm is a vacuum because we haven't heard from our gm for the last 13 days. Last I heard was a guy who knew a guy that our gm was in the hospital)

Gnurken
02-11-2009, 03:23 AM
All those kind of drops, mounts, bags, 5xbagde satchels are just rolled by all, not a raidroll (/roll 25) by leader since it's always different sorting of people in the groups that is can cause issues.

Only for specific items like the legendaries in TBC we had attendence requirements. We had no requirement for the Phoenix mount from TK either, just random.

I just assume that we be doing 3-drake for many many weeks more and almost all will get a drakemount, if we don't there will be more mounts from achivements in Ulduar to get.

Jorge
02-11-2009, 03:41 AM
All those kind of drops, mounts, bags, 5xbagde satchels are just rolled by all, not a raidroll (/roll 25) by leader since it's always different sorting of people in the groups that is can cause issues.
...



Eh? What difference does it make? Besides that you have to visually notice 25 rolls to determine who had the highest.
The only constant aspect in the group sorting is that you are always the 5th in your group display. The roll itself is totally random (d'oh!).
If your raiders think otherwise, tell them to l2stochastics.
In other news, I /random 25 the Sarth3D drake among the current raid. If some trial or whatnot gets it, it's fine, he did his job to beat the encounter today. The progression phase was rewarded in other ways.

pickarbm
02-11-2009, 08:04 AM
I cant help but feel your simpathy over vaenity items as well. My guild has many members who raid just to get them where as we have others who see them as a bonus on top of the loot drops that their toon still needs. I like to assign these items to members who don't take gear loot drops. I have others who want a strict /roll for them. The deal I had made was, If you are willing to pay your DKP or Epic Loot Roll winnings on getting just that item for the nite, then by all means certainly, your justified in asking to bid for it rather than open /roll, but If that person wants a chance at it on top of that Epic helm that they had been dreaming of for the last month, then that member really has no justification to state /roll is the only fair way around it. Many players are at differnet gear levels and some player only continue to play that toon for vaenity items as epic loot becomes trivial once you are wearing most top of the line items. I would suggest you take it to a level of seeing if your members are team players or just loot gobblers. That can easily sway one's (your GM) assessment of how to approach it. If (s)he is one of those people who just runs to fill up your group, already has sufficient gear, and you require his/her presence due to his/her play skill or character ability, then it may be easy to help that person get a vaenity item just to keep them comming back so your team is successful and allow the raid to improve with ger upgrades. If your guild is getting the twilight drakes weekly, then it's only a matter of time before everyone has one so it shouldnt matter who has the first one, right? I only mention this as my guild is a progression raiding guild but we promote a team/family environment where as we are all here to help each other and look out for one another. If you have selfish loot gobblers who see that they should be able to pull vaenity items over others who really cant utilize loot, as well as fully intend to take additional epic drops, I think you may have a whole new problem in that your geared veterans will not appreciate having to spend hours raiding when they know they are being used soley as a workhorse. I suggest taking care of the people who put the time in to make your runs sucessfull, as you should expect they do the same when it comes to participating to help down bosses so others can get geared up to the standard your raid expects. Just one suggestion. Not saying it's the best fit for you or your guild, but I understand both sides on this topic.

Gnurken
02-11-2009, 08:18 AM
Eh? What difference does it make? Besides that you have to visually notice 25 rolls to determine who had the highest.
The only constant aspect in the group sorting is that you are always the 5th in your group display. The roll itself is totally random (d'oh!)

It's just that, the leader rolls 17 and someone gets the item, if you count it on your raidscreen you get a different result. To collect rolls from 25 people, just use "Loothog" addon, pops up a nice window as soon as someone rolls and have nice options to countdown and auto announce the winner.

Also gives people the option to pass on an item by not rolling instead of having the raidleader keep track of whispers of those that don't want the item for some reason.

Simple, public, no drama...

Satrina
02-11-2009, 09:38 AM
They're vanity items; why would people care enough to put rules on them? Wow. We just tell people to hit need on mounts, 22 slot bags, satchels of spoils and the like.

(People bidding on loot leave the roll windows up on loot items that are going for DKP, and the winner just hits need while the rest pass.)

pickarbm
02-11-2009, 10:18 AM
Satrina,

In some cases ,yes, looting rules are needed on vaenity items. players from RP servers actually covet these. I'm not trying to argue, but I feel your excluding an option that could pose the root cause behind this.

Regards.

AxLxExX
02-11-2009, 10:23 AM
For our guild runs of anything, if a mount drops, if you've done your job you get to roll. If you die 2 seconds into the fight (because you were stupid) you don't get to roll on loot. If you AFK through anything in the instance, you don't get to roll. If anything happens so that you weren't as crucial in the killing of the boss as anyone else, you don't get to roll.

Usually this means if you're under x dps, you don't get to roll on anything. Not even epics. Kind of a "Do your job, get rewarded" type deal.

Kavtor
02-11-2009, 10:29 AM
Just random to the raid. Anything more complicated than that and it becomes ridiculous. Raid leaders have more important things to worry about than the distribution of silly vanity mounts.

Yes, some people want them more than others, but anything more complicated than a /roll and you're asking for a headache. They drop every week. Everyone will get pretty pixels eventually.

kolben
02-11-2009, 11:15 AM
The stuff like mounts, bags, gems etc. should just be an open roll for your entire raid. Grats to the winner....

I wouldn't raid with someone who would do it any other way, honestly. Some people get this little control freak loot mongering thing going on and want to use loot as a way to reward/punish people... it's stupid. Remind me to tell you about the story of a serious Raid Nazi who threatened to wipe everyone's DKP if they died during the fear on Archimonde, guess what happened to him on the next attempt :P

Lizana
02-11-2009, 12:41 PM
we personally use dkp for the items, allows those who are willing to pay the most get them.

Horacio
02-11-2009, 12:52 PM
I am not well versed for the Sarth 3D loot table but I cannot imagine there is a whole lot there that really is worth it. Killing Sarth 3D is about beating the most difficult encounter in game currently and getting the achievement.

So if you do it once, all 25 raiders there have 'beat Wow' until 3.1 hits or at least are done with Sarth 3D. Maybe the mount is a big deal to some, maybe not to others but if you institute a favoratism policy to award it, I worry what it would do to attendance in subsequent kills?

With Legendaries like Warglaives, you still had, at the time, the best in slot items in game also dropping. T6 chests, some hawt weapons, etc. People weren't not going to show up because they wouldn't get the glaives over the rogue officer who hasn't missed a raid in 9 months.

As such, I think the best way is to random it off but with some reasonable minimum floor so it doesn't go to the trial who died while Tenebron was up and was doing 1800 DPS.

Spice
02-18-2009, 06:14 AM
Long time reader first time poster :rolleyes:.

First 3d mount was handed to our GM 24 ppl in the raid whanted him to have it.

Now we use attendence list.
25 past raids all those that have the highest attendence get to roll.
This way the fun loot goes always first to the ppl that raid most.

orcstar
02-19-2009, 07:01 PM
we personally use dkp for the items, allows those who are willing to pay the most get them.
I'm hesitant to let it go for dkp because some guildies might end up not taking gear upgrades to be highest on dkp when the mount drops. And members passing upgrades hurts your raid in the end.

Selyndia
02-20-2009, 12:05 PM
Vanity items tend to be open roll, however, sometimes I have seen many guilds award out certain super rare (Azure Drake, Ashes of Al'ar), or first of achievement based items (Amani War Bear, Twilight Drake) to certain guild members for service (Guild Leaders, Raid Leaders, etc) but it varies by guild to guild, and usually after the first couple it goes up to open random anyways.

Devish
02-24-2009, 09:26 PM
we had the same problems, some wanted /rnd 25, some wanted to just give it to most active ppl. but in the the end they decided to give it to me, raidlead and guild lead, damn i was happy :) i was damn glad, too bad i got the maly25 drake 2 hours later also by rolling for it.... but well we decided to farm the 3d drake till everybody got it.

in our guild everybody is in love with this kind of vanity mounts so well have to spend some more hours in 3d ^^ but well its some good practise, right now we need 2-3 trys till the next mountlover is getting happy ...

my idea was and still is to roll /rnd 25 and exclude trials, because they still have to proof themselfes to be worth such an honour.

hope it helped

Beerey
02-25-2009, 11:47 PM
We gave our first Twilight Drake to the raid member with the highest lifetime attendance in t7 content (he had 100%). Now we're working our way down the list, people with the most attendance get it first.

Reward people for being there and putting the effort in to further your raid progression.