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Polter
02-11-2009, 01:40 AM
I don't know about others, but I have often gone through the humiliation of people asking me to wait on a Heroic group before landing an invite as they check my armory to see if the *25k HP 540 Def* claims are truthful.

While I agree with this in theory, since no one wants to be locked into a heroic with a bad group, I have often found myself denied invites because armory happened to have caught me in Questing/DPS gear and the group didn't even take the time to invite me and inspect.

I was wondering if others were running into this new level of pre-invite scrutiny, and if so, how you dealt with this trend?

Muffin Man
02-11-2009, 01:59 AM
I was running around leveling a axes, so I had a green axe. I was in dps gear, so my life was low. I joined a raid to tank, and kept on beating mobs while waiting for the raid to fill up.

Suddenly I found myself booted, I asked the RL what was up. He said you only have 23k hp, that's not enough. I explained to him what I was doing, he apologized and reinvited saying: I didn't know warriors had multiple gear sets =x.

It happens, I don't let it bother me too much since there's no point trying to stick it to them later or trying to get someone to back off their snap judgement. In general if someone rejects me off inaccurate information I don't bother trying to get an invite back.

In fact, if someone invites me to a group after asking my stats, then kicks me for not being geared enough I just put them on ignore list and go on my way. For example, I've been booted from groups because they saw someone with 30k hp in lfg while I was sitting at 27k for Naxx/10 and suddenly decided I wasn't good enough to tank for them.

ElfTheHunter
02-11-2009, 02:17 AM
I've been on the other end recently... After doing a H AN where two of the DPS were putting out half my DPS (I'm talking 600dps) I got pissed and now I check the armory for a quick view of the people I'll be grouping with.

I will usually simply look up the members on wowheroes or armory to have a look at their gear, and if enough of them are undergeared where I think we'll have a hard time and might not be able to finish it, I simply excuse myself (guild needs me, forgot an appointment, etc). I don't like confrontation, but I also don't like wiping over and over - because soon enough one of those 600dps will start blaming me and force me into an argument when I point out I'm doing double his DPS.

On the other hand, I wiped 6-7 times in H Nex today because of a undergeared/inexperienced healer, but she was nice and was honest about not being that good. I would gladly do that over and over again - she knew she was out of her league and didn't blame others.

The thing is... I geared up for heroics. I made sure that I was def capped and had over 22k health before I stepped foot in UK. it's not that tough, there are quests, regular instances, reputation rewards, craftables, etc. If you're unwilling to put the work into getting geared enough for heroics, why should I carry you in a Pug - get your guild to carry you if you want to skip the work.

But you bring up a good point, in that they could be wearing a different gear set - I'll try to keep that in mind :P

Abel
02-13-2009, 07:32 AM
I just keep my damn gear on. I only recruit DPS who claim to do 1400+, if they don't I simply kick them. Same thing with Archavon, if we're not meeting the total required DPS on the trash, I kick everyone who's too low.

If you're not performing you need to start performing or get the hell out.

Hearing the poster before me put up with that many wipes regardless of how nice the person is, is just unacceptable. I'd replace them after 3 wipes. 3 strikes you're out..

I pugged a raid one week and we were doing fantastic, then the druid died on Sapph over and over and over again within the first minute (due to his own stupidity). He happened to be the only decurser. People like that I wonder why they even step foot in the damn instance.

Durandro
02-14-2009, 02:09 PM
I used to check Armory. Now I can't be bothered with the hassle. Heck, I don't even tank anymore because of the stress it causes.

But I've definately been the victim of gear snobbery. Even when I had 26k hp unbuffed I could not for the life of me get into a Naxx 10 raid.

Mhoram
02-14-2009, 02:32 PM
So I guess we no longer try to make lesser players (meaning players that aren't as good as us, but are trying their best, not bad players as in people that just crawled out of the dumpster at Burger King) better. That's sad.

Half the fun of this game was playing with different people, adapting to their playstyle and abilities, and finding friends where we thought we'd only find failure. Now it's just "win or go home". No longer "let's give it a go and see what happens", but "elite, not defeat".

That's not the game I've been playing for the last four years.

gyre
02-14-2009, 03:10 PM
I just turn up and play. I've never checked any player on armoury, and if a group doesn't want me then it's their loss tbh. I can always find another one :)

-- gyre --

Lizana
02-14-2009, 03:28 PM
I try to always log out in my spellpower gear for this reason.

jettzypher
02-14-2009, 06:29 PM
i think using armory to check gear/stats is great when trying to fill spots in raids where you must have people with good gear. for somethign like heroics though, it shouldnt matter. its not fun but ill run heroics and try to down bosses even if the dps is a little low. that way, those that are under geared have a chance to get something that will help, and gives them a chance to learn.

Mhoram makes a great point. what happened to dragging people through content trying to make them better at what they do? wipes are a small price to pay. besides, it only costs gold. yeah a 52g repair bill is kinda heavy, but 4-5 dailies and i already have more money than i started with. alot of people seem to just expect people to be better, but it doesnt happen. most people need the guidance to improve, and itll never happen if they arent getting those oppurtunities.

Whitegold
03-02-2009, 05:53 PM
We pugged a mage for DPS our first run through Naxx. His damage was the lowest in the raid, significantly below my own (as a warrior MT). His DPS was something like 700. Most groups would have kicked him, but some of our guild members were the same, and we figured we were all learning, so whatever... When another pug DPS DK (3000DPS) we had was complaining about rolling on a shard, the mage specifically whispered me to say that he didn't care about shards or loot, he was just happy to be there. He later (many wipes after) whispered to say he liked the way we did things. The DK just complained about too many wipes and repair costs. The mage joined in the jokes, the general silliness of our usual raid environment, trash talk on vent...

Guess who we took back with us the next time?

And the next.

The most recent time he came he'd spent a lot of time upgrading. His DPS was now topping recount, and he asked if he could join the guild. Naturally he was welcome.

There's a place for helping people out, getting them through. Hell, it's the people who are slightly undergeared who have the most to gain from the run, right?

I've been with good PUGs and bad PUGs. Fury warriors with insane DPS, grumpy DKs, undergeared healers, mages who don't understand that it works better if I hit the mob first... but what I remember more is how people act during the run. I don't care if there are a few wipes. It's not even real money. I care that we have fun, and that comes down to people, personalities - and that's not in Armory.

Tatt
03-02-2009, 05:57 PM
I agree, I base my enjoyment of playing from the people, not imaginary bars. I dislike bad dps'ing, healers, or tanks as much as the next person, but will always stretch a little farther for the person who is obviously trying and having a good time. An asshole who does 6k dps is still an asshole.

Skyborn
03-02-2009, 06:18 PM
I go into every pug assuming I'm dealing with the run-of the mill slack-jawed mouthbreathing 13 year old gimme gimme type, but I always hope to find people who are a normal, reasonable human beings with gear / rotation / strategy questions. For the former, I couldn't care less about trying to help them, as they're just not capable of absorbing new info or even recognizing they're making mistakes or being an ass. Like others have said, I will make the effort if someone strikes me as being genuine.

Pugs aside, I will talk shop for hours with any guildie, to pick their brain or have them pick mine. Recently I've been building a fury set and my guildies have been an invaluable resource... and I like to think I know a few things about tanking, and mostly just pass on pearls of wisdom from TS.

Niian
03-02-2009, 06:56 PM
I occasionally log out naked.
Had a few people question my gear, got kicked from a group a few times because they invite me as a tank to see I have 18k hp. They don't take the time to see that I also have 20k mana and am in holy gear -_-'
Their loss. One button and I have 30k hp.

Rennadrel
03-02-2009, 10:04 PM
I occasionally log out naked.
Had a few people question my gear, got kicked from a group a few times because they invite me as a tank to see I have 18k hp. They don't take the time to see that I also have 20k mana and am in holy gear -_-'
Their loss. One button and I have 30k hp.

Thats the pain in the ass about being a paladin though. I get random people whispering me asking me to heal or tank a heroic cause of that god damn Who List application which just pisses me off to no end. I hate it when people assume that all pallies are healers or tanks or DPS. If I am looking for a group, I will go to my friends or my guild to do a heroic or raid, I don't pug outside my guild for raids and only group heroics with my friends and guildies. Why? Because people know what kind of gear I have, my spec and what skills I bring to the table. I hate pugging as a ret pally and winding up with some idiot tank who doesn't know how to build threat easily and usually the tank is a paladin so I wind up pulling aggro with about two hits.

I really wish people would take the time to check my Armory before whispering me asking me to heal or tank, that way they find out I am Retribution and don't land on my ignore list, I put everyone who whispers me asking to heal or tank on iggy right away. I have a Holy set but unless someone is going to pay me about 300G to respec, reinstall my healing add-ons and pull my gear out of the guild bank which covers any wipes that may occur, I won't heal a dungeon unless I know I can and am willing to do it.

Starbuck
03-02-2009, 11:14 PM
We pugged a mage for DPS our first run through Naxx. His damage was the lowest in the raid, significantly below my own (as a warrior MT). His DPS was something like 700. Most groups would have kicked him, but some of our guild members were the same, and we figured we were all learning, so whatever... When another pug DPS DK (3000DPS) we had was complaining about rolling on a shard, the mage specifically whispered me to say that he didn't care about shards or loot, he was just happy to be there. He later (many wipes after) whispered to say he liked the way we did things. The DK just complained about too many wipes and repair costs. The mage joined in the jokes, the general silliness of our usual raid environment, trash talk on vent...

Guess who we took back with us the next time?

I couldn't agree more. This is the essence of the game, to play for fun. And with people who you can have fun with.

I quit playing pugs for this reason, usually trying to get hold of a few good friends I made during the way to run heroics. Last time I was in a pug I left after the third FFS comment by an underaged mage (you can tell they're underaged by the constant jumping). So many people out there who take this game far too serious, and I dont want to waste my time with that kind of ppl.

And I have never, ever checked armory to see if people are geared or not. Knowing that it takes so much more than gear to make a good player.

*$

Misko
03-02-2009, 11:26 PM
I think the one thing that has always pissed me off the most in this regard, is the constant emphasis on stamina making you the best tank ever if you have alot of it. Not that you might have more experience then them, or if you have some threat gear on instead of max survival stuff. It just breeds tanks who think as long as I have a million health I can do anything, wtf why is the dps pulling off me. Exaggeration, yes.
/rant

White I honestly really liked the story, and pretty much all of what you said. Bring back the fun in groups :D.

Xenbob
03-03-2009, 08:20 AM
When people are doing the raids I am always overlooked because I am a Furry tank. No one on my server really knows how to work with a druid tank and it seems they think we should be either boomkin or resto...which to me are boring specs.

Being in a small guild makes Pugs a necessary evil. Being the only tank in my guild it is left up to me to pick and choose any pugs that we run with. That being said I have never once checked in Armory about their gear/stats because to me and my guildies it does not matter. We like having fun and problem solving through challenges that may arise if the dps is lacking.

During any heroic that we have a pug along with us is another player walking away with an understanding of how druids tank and what to do and what not to do to avoid pulling aggro off of them. So far the ones that have the hardest time learning are Ret Pallies which I tend to steer clear of because of the complaints of not holding aggro after they go through their rotation before sufficient threat has built up.


the constant emphasis on stamina making you the best tank ever if you have alot of it

Those looking for this are not looking for the right thing. I have had some ask what my stam is when buffed (~39khp) and responses vary from OMG thats a lot to Thats all...why are you not stacking stam gems to increase it...While yes we can stack stam gems and stam gear but if we do not have any mitigation we will be dropped in no time which for druids is of great importance because we cannot parry nor shield block anything.

loquatious
03-03-2009, 08:31 AM
I almost always logout in shield block gear unless its right after the raid - no epeen value whatsoever.

OTOH I'll only tank a heroic or 10 man if folks come to be begging and pleading so its not much of a downside

IceHaus151
03-03-2009, 08:50 AM
I usually quickly check WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings (http://www.wow-heroes.com) for pugs. That way you can quickly see all gear, gems, and enchants. Id rather take someone in all 80 blues with proper enchants and gems than someone with a lot of epics and no enchants or WTF gems.

I started checking this only after we pug'd a Lock who asked to go to a heroic and he was pulling in less than 500 DPS and kept asking for Recount after every fight. Finally our tank said your gear isnt good, you have no gems and no enchants, quit asking for Recount, it isnt changing. lol. We didnt wipe, but thats because the 4 of us that were there could have done it alone, but had it been a harder heroic we might have been in a little trouble.

I dont mind helping people at all. I just dont like when people in mostly greens try to get in immediately for heroics. Do some work, run a few lvl 80 reg dungeons, get some blue upgrades, then come to the heroics. I like helping people, i hate carrying people.

kolben
03-03-2009, 08:59 AM
I just won't play with someone who is obsessed about checking out someone on Armory. I'm a lot more likely to boot someone from the group for being an elitist ass than any other reason. You want to take wow too seriously? Go ahead, more power to you. If you can't play decently, chill and have a somewhat level head then we have no business playing together cause IRL i'd bust your damn chops :D

IceHaus151
03-03-2009, 09:01 AM
Sometimes you are in a hurry though and you dont have time to help. Sometimes you just wanna get it done, and therefore pug a lot more selectively. Ive had H VH last 18 minutes with a great group, and had it last over ah hr before too. Sometimes I like the 18 min runs!

IceHaus151
03-03-2009, 09:06 AM
I just won't play with someone who is obsessed about checking out someone on Armory. If that's how some of you want to play, more power to you. To me it looks like a bunch of ordinary nobodys trying to be elitist players.


Or its about some people trying to get the heroic ran as fast as possible and do not want dead weight. I dont think tanks should be booted for having 26k health though, thats a little ridiculous. But someone pulling 400 DPS in greens? You really want to carry people like that all the time through runs?

kolben
03-03-2009, 09:30 AM
But someone pulling 400 DPS in greens? You really want to carry people like that all the time through runs?

I haven't seen anyone who had under 1K DPS in my groups, not even once.

I'll tell you another thing, I don't inspect people, I don't armory them, I don't ask them for their stats. I tell them what I want from them on pulls and boss fights, but that's about it.

Considering my typical experience, these horribad players in greens with 400 dps don't exist. I've had more pickup groups go poorly due to overzealous warlocks and people who want to complete the instance in 7.4 minutes than anything else. Sorry, in my book this is the lowest form of wannabe-elitism; an entirely player-fabricated problem.

Muffin Man
03-03-2009, 01:47 PM
The lowest dps I've seen is 800 from a dps-er. We still managed to complete the instance without a wipe.

When I was playing as dps, the lowest tank dps I saw was around 700 I think (and I'll tell you what, I still didn't pull aggro).

These nightmare players who do deadweight numbers are much overstated. You'll probably run into one once a month (depending on how often you pug) and then you'll never forget that they exist.

I generally assume people in LFG for heroics can pull their weight, Raids have stricter requirements ofc but I never set those up. When I needed someone to not suck I ask their stats or only invite the ones who put their stats in the LFG note. Armory is a little extreme, but I suppose if I were running raids I would do it.

I've been burned by my lack of scrutiny before, just yesterday I ran with a resto shaman in all blues, no gems/enchants who couldn't last 3 pulls without drinking in CoS. He also couldn't heal through wave 7 I think and that was where the run ended. But like I said these nightmares are few and far between (although I think my server player base is pretty good in general).

Goresaw
03-04-2009, 07:43 AM
I always check the healer... dps I dont really care. There aren't alot of fights where a bad dps will ruin you in heroics, and in my experience if one dps is bad (which happens) another one is better enough to pull him.

With healers though, if you get one who is just bad you can be really screwed. That does happen, and at least in my experience it happens fairly often. When I armory them I'm not looking for them to be in full epics... I just want to see that they look like they are somewhat competent. Enchants on at least some/most of their gear, even if its just cheap suboptimal ones, gear thats for the right spec, etc etc

a bad healer can kill a run

Maat
03-04-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm a little sick of the "lolpug, I only tank for my guild" mentality going on, so here's my 2c that no one will care about.

Bad tank is worse than undergeared tank. Bad healer is worse than undergeared healer.

Unfortunately job-savvy isn't something you can quantify, but you can look at gear quality (gems, enchants and such) from Armory at least. Just gotta be responsible about it.

That being said, I only Armory folks for Naxx10+ and recruiting.

Molohk
03-04-2009, 02:52 PM
A lot of the times people are afraid they'll run into someone who turned 80 today and isn't even at 540 defense yet, which is understandable. Other times, and very frequently, there's a crappy healer(s) looking for an overgeared tank to compensate. So when they ask me for my stats, I ask for the stats of their healers.

If people demand me to have a certain level of gear, then I have the right to demand the same from them.

Edit: I don't mind running with people not as geared as I am, but when they get picky on me, I just feel obligated to turn it back at them :P

Whitegold
03-05-2009, 12:23 AM
I think the one thing that has always pissed me off the most in this regard, is the constant emphasis on stamina making you the best tank ever if you have alot of it.
There's a strong over-emphasis on raw HP, rather than zany things like... your ability to keep some of it. :)

For a time I ran with an OT who (as a DK, and I'm a warrior) bragged to me that his HP was better than mine in his tank gear.

I asked what his Defense was: 430.

I crafted him some new gear. He got all sulky.

Goresaw
03-05-2009, 08:19 AM
There's a strong over-emphasis on raw HP, rather than zany things like... your ability to keep some of it. :)


thats true... for example, for heroics you really dont need more than maybe 25-26k hp or so to be totally fine... but I still stack tons of stam. Why? because when I say I have 29k hp unbuffed I am probably many times more likely to be picked up by a good group than if I said I had 25k unbuffed. However, in reality I would probably be a better tank for a heroic group if I took some of those stam gems/gear and worried more about threat stats.

Thats just how it goes though

Xenbob
03-05-2009, 12:22 PM
I had someone decline me last night as a tank even with 30k hp unbuffed because my defense rating is 409 or so...I no longer look at it. When I asked them to look at the druid talent tree for feral and at SotF(Survival of the Fittest) they recanted and wanted me..but I declined them that time around.
If you have the nerve and gaul to call someone out on their stats with out checking the class and class specific talents then you have no reason to put a group together. Give it to someone who does their research first so you do not look like a complete moron when your bluff is called.

ndb1983
03-05-2009, 12:34 PM
I'm a little sick of the "lolpug, I only tank for my guild" mentality going on, so here's my 2c that no one will care about

If you are a tank in a guild of active lvl 80 players, you dont have time to tank pugs. I don't have the time to meet all of their tanking demands, much less venture into the pug world.

Hit Me
03-05-2009, 12:35 PM
I haven't seen anyone who had under 1K DPS in my groups, not even once.

I'll tell you another thing, I don't inspect people, I don't armory them, I don't ask them for their stats. I tell them what I want from them on pulls and boss fights, but that's about it.

Considering my typical experience, these horribad players in greens with 400 dps don't exist. I've had more pickup groups go poorly due to overzealous warlocks and people who want to complete the instance in 7.4 minutes than anything else. Sorry, in my book this is the lowest form of wannabe-elitism; an entirely player-fabricated problem.
I haven't run into too many crappy players in pugs, but I've seen 400 dps hunters in blues. There's one in my guild and we have tried and tried and tried to help out, but it just doesn't work. It sucks too because even though she realizes her dps is inexplicably bad, she doesn't understand why we don't let her in groups.

Xenbob
03-05-2009, 12:46 PM
If you are a tank in a guild of active lvl 80 players, you dont have time to tank pugs

To true here. Being the only geared and viabletank in my small guild any Pug I run means one less guild run for gear that they may need for pre naxx setups.

Skyborn
03-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Kolben I wish I had your luck because I've run with some terrible DPS in my time.

I've run with a hunter who was barely breaking 1k DPS, I looked at her talent spec and she was specced 71 points into beast mastery.

I've run with a mage who was hovering around 800 DPS and when I asked him what was up with his damage he told me: "I'm not specced for DPS." This, from a mage.

In general, if a player is in the 1200-1400 range I don't really say anything because I know I'm just spoiled by the quality of guild runs, but when someone's DPS is hovering around 1K or below, there are some fundamental issues they need to fix.

To be clear, the second we down the first boss I will never ever boot someone from a heroic for poor DPS. I consider it completely tacky to save someone to a heroic only to be prevented from finishing it. I will however post the damage meters in a guild with a /wrists at the end of the run.

kolben
03-05-2009, 01:25 PM
Yeah it could be luck. I am picky about other things, I've kind of learned to spot retarded hyper kids by names/guild names/way they chat etc. I suppose that's my own little elitist thing I've got going on.

I'm not going to stand here and tell you every group I've ever run was perfect. That's far from the truth. I once spend well over 100g wiping on the 3rd boss in H. MGT with a terrible group that just got rolled by the adds. But I'm a stubborn ass with a healthy ego, I practically threatened the party into staying and completing the run.

So far though in WotLK, I just haven't run into anyone that I couldn't work with and complete the instance in a timely manner, and be on my way. If they sold tinfoil hats so people couldn't look you up on armory, I'd get one. My gear is fine, my spec is fine - I'm very confident about what I'm doing and how to do it right. I just hate the idea of armory. If you want to know if I'm a good player, take me to an instance and I'll tank/dps the hell out of the place and remove all doubt. I try to give the same benefit to other people as well.

Naux
03-05-2009, 01:35 PM
The most fun pug I've ever been in was with 3 of my IRL friends and some fury warrior who did less dps than our healer on the bosses in heroic VH (he pops bl and dps's and i use full cooldowns on every boss so he doesn't have to heal me). What was great about the guy is that afterwards he stayed in the party and talked the ears off of myself and my fury warrior friend. I did a pug the next day with him when he had 0 upgrades and his dps had gone from 1200 to 2200 just from sitting down and listening. Those are the best people to play with.

Taelas
03-05-2009, 01:37 PM
I don't inspect people to weed them out, either in-game or on the Armory, unless they prove themselves to be idiots.

And then I'm just looking for confirmation.

I absolutely hate getting whispered, "health?" when I join LFG for a group. Invite me and check for yourself, dangit. It's not important enough to blather about; I tanked heroics with 20k unbuffed after I hit 80. >_<

Goresaw
03-05-2009, 02:21 PM
While I agree that weeding people out by armorying them can be sort of elitist and lame, I don't really have any problem with people doing it to me and I don't really see why I would unless my gear didn't stand up. Honestly, I just post my HP in the notes when I join the LFG Q and if I whisper somebody for an invite I just say something like "prot tank 29k unbuffed" to save myself the 2-3 minutes of them looking me up. I mean really, who cares?

Raptor
03-06-2009, 02:50 PM
I have to agree with most of the responces. I too have been a victim of the armory check when it's shown me in my dps gear. Heck I have even had an arguement with twits about a tank having dps gear. They didnt beleve a tank should have dps gear..." your a tank and nothing but a tank you dont dps"

:eek: idiot didnt understand that I quest, I run dailies, .. anyways back to the topic.

The last time I had this happen, was for a group I was heading into to do a 25man run and I was to ot. Apparently someone armory checked me, and yup.. dps gear. Well he pm'd me and said "dude, your gear sucks you cant Offtank. " My responce after the shock was what the hell are you talking about, my gear is pretty much bang on to what Tankspot reconmends. I then told him to come here and point out what gear he thinks sucked.. he did and went wtf..thats not the gear your wearing in armory?

My advice is, if your going to get into a group you havent played with, before you get the invite.. tell them to come to you and personally check your gear instead of using the armory to check gear. it saves alot of bs and hassle IMO.

Warwench
03-06-2009, 02:55 PM
My favorite are the ones who ask for your "stats" and have no idea what that mean.

"Whats your stats?" 28K unbuffed, 25/18/22

"LOLZ0R!! What kind of spec is 25/18/22!!"

/ignore.

mavfin
03-11-2009, 03:08 PM
But I've definately been the victim of gear snobbery. Even when I had 26k hp unbuffed I could not for the life of me get into a Naxx 10 raid.

Which is laughable, really. My warrior sits at 259xx unbuffed, because of avoidance and def-gemming (no tank weapon luck) and I easily main-tank Naxx-10.

Elmeric
03-17-2009, 01:31 PM
Typical case :
I’m chilling in Dalaran looking for a group. At some point someone spam “LFM for H instance Tank”. My usual reply is “Ill go”. Then one of two things happens :
1) I get an invite within 5sec
2) I get the CHALLENGE (oooooohh!!!) : What’s you stats ? I answer that I’m def capped with 26k unbuff (I specify unbuff cause I was recently stunned to learn there are still people out there with Naxx+ gear who still don’t realise that you actual buffed HP depends on group composition…anyway let’s continue)

From that point, once again, two things can happen :
1) I get an invite within 5sec
2) I wait for 10-25sec…now I know that the guy is actually a pervert feeling me up the armory.

I understand raider spec/gear must be checked and somewhat filtered. This aspect of the game is very goal oriented and I understand wanting to have the best chance to succeed and not waste everyone’s time for to long.

But for 5man, I think it’s overrated.
Beside if your so good to impose some demands on your team mates, aren’t you good enough to support an under geared player in your group? And maybe…just maybe give some advices? Naaaahhh that would be stretching it!
:)