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View Full Version : ripping aggro from Mt on patch



Blatman
02-09-2009, 01:00 AM
Last 2 weeks we have done Patchwork in 10 man, I have set my self up as OT as I am significanly better geared than the other tanks who are being gearing through Naxx.

But in both runs I quickly pulled aggro off the MT (even when I waited auto hitting the second time -not great for maxing dps on him), which causes the healers a moment of panic as they catch the near dead ex MT.

Seems best just to MT him as healing isn't an issue and if it weren't for other melee he could be solo tanked- but goes against the standard Patchwork tanking manual.

onimarishu
02-09-2009, 01:06 AM
Sounds like the MT needs to improve his/her rotation. What class was the OT?

And yes, on Naxx10 you can Solo tank him if you don't have any melee.

Bulk
02-09-2009, 03:33 AM
With the possible exception of a well geared druid, no one can take 2 hits from patch - so as long as the current MT has enough hp to take one hit, swap him over to OT.

Dimness
02-09-2009, 05:13 AM
I ripped aggro the very first time I did patch (I was OT druid). It's not a problem so long as you cool it on attacks asap (I threw mangle and lacerate out of rotation and that solved problem).

orcstar
02-09-2009, 05:33 AM
Sorry, I'm quite harsh on this one:
You need to learn to play: your job on that fight is to stay above dps but not go over the maintank. THAT IS YOUR JOB ON PATCHWERK.
If you can't do that you're doing it wrong. In no way is it acceptable that you go over the one maintanking patchwerk. Hold back on your attacks if needed, install omen. You just got to accept that different tanks have different mechanics and even if you CAN ouththreat someone, doesn't mean you need to do it. Just hold back, (as a warrior) keep sunders demoshout and commanding shout up. And leave that shieldslam button alone for a coolown or two.

If your other tanks threatproduction is so horrible dps can't go all out on patchwerk, you need to educate him a bit.

Last note: you are correct, if you want maximum dps on patchwerk and you're doing the most threat, then you might be the better candidate to tank him.

Volador
02-09-2009, 06:11 AM
I'm with Orc on this one. It is YOUR responsibility as OT to stay firmly planted between the MT and DPS on threat. Specifically one Patch where a tank switch can/will play hell on your raid.

Khue
02-09-2009, 06:18 AM
Actually, I think that in some cases that there is a bit of a bug when it comes to Pally's oting patch. I had the OT pally take threat from me several times until finally it got to the point where we would just say "screw it, the Pally is the mt for patchy." It had to do with Seal of Light, or one of the Pally's threat gaining seals. No matter how much threat I had over the OT, as soon as he would use that Seal, his threat would destroy mine and he would be Patchy's new main target. Rather odd bug, but in this case we went ahead and changed our play for this fight.

I am not saying that I wasn't doing my job properly, but when situations keep arising and you don't change your play, your entire squad is responsible for the failure not just the tanks and threat mechanics.

Naros
02-10-2009, 10:13 AM
I have both MT and OT Patchwerk in the past as a druid and depending on which role I have, I gear accordingly.

As the MT; I gear a tad less on avoidance and more on threat side because I want to make sure I maintain a solid lead over the OT and the DPS. As the OT; I gear more for avoidance and survivability than threat to avoid climbing over the MT's curve; especially if the MT is not another druid. I also pick more avoidance and stamina for OTing because the Hateful strikes are far worse than Patchwerk's silly melee attacks that are chump change.

So depending on the tanks in your situations, it is important to observe your role and not create havoc for the healers to compensate later on because you got too aggro hungry and disobeyed the role you were asked to perform.

Blatman
02-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Thanks Orcstar I think ;)

Point was seems if you are gearing newly dinged alts etc and are after fast clears it just seems better for your 'MT" just to tank Patches kill him fast and move on.

Kalbitang
02-11-2009, 02:00 AM
The hateful strikes generate a lot of aggro for whoever they hit. So, it's probably some combination of how much threat you are each generating, as well as the additional threat from the hatefuls that is causing your problems.

Gysh
02-11-2009, 07:08 AM
If you are a warrior OT tell whoever you put vigilance on to take it off, I find that extra Threat will push me over even if I stop attacking. Especially if it is on your best dps player.

Shortypop
02-11-2009, 07:14 AM
I usually support the "do your job" point of view and in this case I agree healers don't often react very well when MT and OT suddenly get swopped. However, I have pulled off the MT in this fight - we pugged a pally tank, and as he was less well geared than me I got him to MT. I then forgot about the gear (and probably experience difference) had a rage bar that was just crying out for heroic strikes and ignored Omen (as usual). As soon as I realised it I stopped and spent most of the rest of the fight auto-attacking.

I would say if your healers are good either get the MT to OT for that fight, or alternatively chat to him. If you're pulling off very easily, then its probably a rotation/gearing problem which should be solved and not pushed under the carpet. It's very easy for an undergeared OT to be carried through Naxx without potential problems with rotation etc being sorted out and if they are going to tank in Ulduar or main tank, that needs to be sorted out.

Rikishi
02-11-2009, 02:45 PM
On patchwerk I tell the guy who's MTing that they got 5 seconds of agro from the time he's pulled to get agro. Generally the tank who tanks him is our paladin, but he know's once those 5 seconds are up I will not hold back. The raid leader is behind me on this because it just helps them get agro faster, and hold it a lot better.

Our last time I figured I would be nice and auto attack if I got close throughout the fight, which I did (was at 95% of his threat almost constantly, and could have easily pulled if I wanted to). Now if the DK tank would get better at dps on bosses, I think we would be ok. I don't think I've seen the boy break 1.7k -_-

Abel
02-13-2009, 07:24 AM
Sorry, I'm quite harsh on this one:
You need to learn to play: your job on that fight is to stay above dps but not go over the maintank. THAT IS YOUR JOB ON PATCHWERK.
If you can't do that you're doing it wrong. In no way is it acceptable that you go over the one maintanking patchwerk. Hold back on your attacks if needed, install omen. You just got to accept that different tanks have different mechanics and even if you CAN ouththreat someone, doesn't mean you need to do it. Just hold back, (as a warrior) keep sunders demoshout and commanding shout up. And leave that shieldslam button alone for a coolown or two.

If your other tanks threatproduction is so horrible dps can't go all out on patchwerk, you need to educate him a bit.

Last note: you are correct, if you want maximum dps on patchwerk and you're doing the most threat, then you might be the better candidate to tank him.

Agreed. OMEN IZ HARD TO WATCH AMIRITE?

Raize
02-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Like others have said, it is good practice to fufill your role on the fight. If it means you have to hold back then thats what you have to do. I've sat through the occasional 10 man Patchwerk fight where all i basically do is shield slam and auto-attack. Even had to do this on heroic as well. Observe who generates the most threat on the fight and make them your MT. If you don't, then your DPS overall will suffer because of it.

twelveshots
02-15-2009, 02:06 PM
I've had a dps dk in dps gear switch to frost presence and take hatefuls just fine in heroic naxx :x

As off tank yes, it is your job to stay under the MT, but I would say if the mt is only pulling 2.5 tps or something then there are other problems that should be addressed with that tank

ToiletDuck
02-15-2009, 03:24 PM
What I've noticed is it seems that the MT can avoid a few hits and be rage starved on this fight.. where as the OT takes 1 hit and instantly full rage..

stabbytheicepic
02-16-2009, 12:26 AM
What I've noticed is it seems that the MT can avoid a few hits and be rage starved on this fight.. where as the OT takes 1 hit and instantly full rage..

Another reason warriors are awful tanks.

Blatman
02-16-2009, 02:24 AM
wow Abel thanks for that - you really know how to value add!

twelveshots
02-16-2009, 05:35 AM
Another reason warriors are awful tanks.

This forum is for being constructive, not flaming :x


and patch hits so frequently when mting that rage shouldn't be an issue, and the incoming damage while less bursty on MT, still is a similar amount of damage, so usually I like to put highest tps for MT.