View Full Version : MT and OT tank drops, how to deal with it?
02-06-2009, 05:40 AM
I'm not sure how to feel about this...
I'm the MT for my guild, and while I am decently geared (badge and crafted gear mostly) I have not won a single naxx drop (we've been running naxx for close to a month) Our OT has been winning all, this week alone he has won 4 drops (ring, leg, shoulder, etc) I can't help but feel a bit disencouraged.
I'm a bit curious as how other guilds might see this and how they might work it so not just one tank can take all the drops (if there is such a thing) at this pace our OT might out gear me and I might have to drop out of MT'ing (it wouldn't make any sense me MT'ing having less gear)
Naxx tank drops are not as common as DPS or healing drops.
02-06-2009, 05:47 AM
Seems to me that your guild's loot distribution policy is broken. I'd suggest taking this matter up to one of your guild officers to see if they're aware and willing to do something about it.
Personally, my guild tries to distribute loot a bit evenly among the participating classes to avoid this problem.
02-06-2009, 05:47 AM
we use DKP and don't have any problems , but in fairness if you are the MT, tanking gear should be a priority for you , are you just doing /random on all loot in there
02-06-2009, 05:55 AM
We do have a DKP system, though it is not used often if not at all. I have quite a few points accumulated but it wouldn't be fair for me to use them as the rest of the group have very little or none.
02-06-2009, 05:57 AM
We used to use DKP, which usually the MT will come ahead of due to high attendence. For Naxx we have moved to /random due to the high amount of drops and low difficulty compared to previous raid tiers.
In swapping over to rolling, the tanks generally agree on passing stuff to eachother and try to distribute the loot pretty fairly. If I get a drop or two, I will pass the next couple to others--or if something drops which is way better for a DK or Paladin, I'll pass it to them first.
The tanking group should be a tight-knit team in most cases, so I would recommend just working something out.
02-06-2009, 06:04 AM
/roll on all loot isn't good except pugs or when the gearing process isn't that big of a deal.
For Naxx 10 at the start with used /roll with the: " if you already looted an item, someone who didn't loot gets prio" policy. We made this seperate for items and tier though so people wouldn't pass on upgrades trying to get the tier gear.
On the other hand, we've got a tankteam of 4, dk,druid, pala and me and we talk about loot a lot and who wants what and who is gona get what. You should be a tankteam, not tankcompetitors. (OT/MT is soooooooo vanilla wow)
02-06-2009, 06:25 AM
Our guild uses /roll, however we are all pretty close so this kind of situation rarely comes up. Our only loot rule is "Don't be a jerk", meaning if you got the last 2 items, don't be a jerk and roll on the 3rd against people who haven't won anything. Really, the item will drop again, there's no need to make enemies over one epic drop.
If the OT is just taking everything, I'd wonder if he's really the kind of person you'd want in your guild. If everyone is like that, it's probably a good idea to start looking for a new guild.
02-06-2009, 07:04 AM
My guild is still doing /roll on loot since we're still only doing 10-mans, but we employ the "first loot beats second loot" rule, so if you see multiple drops on one night the OT would only beat you every other time. Helps insure a more even distribution (if that's what you're after).
As far as the OT outgearing you, is that a major problem? just switch him to MT, you to OT, and keep going... My best "OT" and I are switching back and forth about every pull on most runs anyway, and occasionally on bosses, so that we both get a chance to enjoy the fun :)
02-06-2009, 07:09 AM
Echoing what others have said, but find someway to distribute the loot evenly.
You don't want one super-geared tank, you want 3-4 decently geared tanks. It allows for absences and gives you a shot at harder encounters. When we first started this expansion, no one would roll against me if I rolled on an item (we use dkp); then, we went to start work on Sarth + drakes and realized we only had one tank capable of surviving any of the "tank" roles. I ended up not taking really anything for a month+ to make sure even off spec tanks were well enough geared that they could step in if need be.
02-06-2009, 07:22 AM
Ask your OT not being so mean. Try to compare each other items and find out who is in more need of the loot.
We are using Suicide Kings for our 25man raids and it works really good. But we use to pass on some loot if it's a better improvement for the other tank/s. Yesterday the amazing Anub'Rekhan 25man shoulders dropped and I was top on the SK list, but I passed on the shoulders (nice improvement for me) because OT was wearing worse ones. I'm happy by being generous, but I've been crying silently all night long thinking about the amazing shoulders :D:D
As OnourisofRavencrest said, you'll need more than 1 uberly geared tank in order to reach some raid goals, so it's better to start now than having to wait 2 weeks to gear up your OTs.
As the others have said, its common curtesy to pass loot to the other tank if you already have 1-2 drops on one raid night regardless on what loot system you are using. Having one tank get 4 items and the other one get zero is obviusly flaved.
As for mt proi over ot that can be used in extreme cases, but its not something you should consider in this easy content. That said i know that some dps/healers prefer the mt to get more drops to make future runs smoother on all parts. Its a dangerous territory and you should be carful sugesting it to avoid to much drama.
02-06-2009, 08:20 AM
Discuss with your guild leadership about changing the loots rules to a priority queue system.
Basically everyone gets 3 top choices, and when an item drops it gets auto looted to whoever has it in their top 3 or a roll between those who have it in their top 3 if there is more than 1 person.
Other than that, just be happy somebody in your guild is getting gear, and the next time it drops you should get it right away right?
02-06-2009, 09:30 AM
Myself and the other tank have agreed to just take turns on tank drops.
Seems to work for us.
02-06-2009, 09:36 AM
IMO, a /roll system for guild run only works if people are fair/mature enough to pass on an item to let other people get geared as well. Also, no lucky streak runs forever, so you can just wait for his streak to be over and for yours to start. If things remain unbalanced for longer, and people refuse to be fair and pass on loot, you may have to change your loot policy (loot council, zero sum, whatever, but frankly i wouldnt want to be in a guild raid with that kind of people).
As a side note, current content doesn't really warrant having an MT and OT specifically assigned. We have 3 tanks in my guild (some slightly better geared than others), and every run we just decide who'll be tanking what among ourselves.
02-06-2009, 09:49 AM
Cant really comment on why you get no loot since you didnt describe your loot system, except to say you have dkp but never use it in practice, and that you dont want to out-bid other players. (why ever not???).
So, does your OT win a random roll each time? If so, then I have to say, thats why random rolling is a pain in a serious guild. Get a better loot system. Personal loot aquisition is a big motivation for raiding, no matter how much people say its all about the team. Also, if you're the MT, I guess you mean you're more of a leader, and you're a better player than your OT, right? (otherwise what does MT/OT mean) One way or another, you should be getting some of those tanking drops instead of him. We can all wait till "the next time it drops" - but wheres the fun in that?
02-06-2009, 09:49 AM
TankTeams is what I have to agree with. In my guild we have 3 Pure Tanks and a DK that carries his Tank gear just in case. 2 Prot Warriors and 1 Prot Pally. It is usually my Prot War buddy and myself the same that tank alot of things. We chat and talk all in /whispers while we are going thru Naxx and anything else. We come to the agreement that he gets dibs / choice on anything that drops.
But then again its him, the GM, and myself that all talk regarding gear for us. We try to mix and match as best as possible and he passes on loot alot and I do for him.
In the end, might be time for a new guild if your 'OT' is winning alot of stuff, while being selfish.
02-06-2009, 09:53 AM
Really depends on how geared the two of you are. Im th MT for my guild and ill usually let the OT get dibs if i see its a bigger upgrade for him. Now this sounds like in your case the OT is a loot hog that needs to be a on a leash :P
We also use a dkp system, which works great. Not so much the system though as the people behind it. Everyone has to work as a team. If this means passing on an upgrade to even classes out, so be it. As stated the tanks at the least should be working as a team and not think of themselves as MT or OT. A tanking core has a bit more UMPH! behind it now with the variety of tanks, and everyone that is a tank in that raid group should perform for the benefit of the raid not themselves.
In the end use whatever system the raid group agrees on. BUT to make it work everyone has to work together and sometimes make greed sacrifices for someone elses need. Yes, someone will screw the raid over every now adn then and gear up then leave or stop raiding, but it is a game as well and all the more reason to distribute the loot evenly.
02-12-2009, 02:55 PM
We use a one epic a night rule. Basically, you can get one contested epic a night that someone else rolls against you on. The next thing that drops, you cannot roll on if someone else needs it. If it is uncontested, you can get as many as you like.
This makes sure people are not winning all the rolls and taking all the gear in a single run.
And if you have the DKP, spend it. If people have low DKP they should attend more often, or not spend it on every side-grade that drops. That's why DKP is so useful, the people who are there all the time get more points to spend as a reward for being there.
Don't be shy, and let your guild know there is a problem.
02-12-2009, 03:06 PM
/roll can work if you are a solid guild and you know you don't have any loot and scoots. You also need to not be afraid to say "hey, mind if I take this one because you got the last 3?" Logically if you are only rolling against your OT there is a 50/50 chance that you win to him, so the next 4 drops should be yours :P. That aside, if you are still outgearing him he should be getting the drops. The game was fun for me when I was in blues, it is still fun when I'm in purples.
02-12-2009, 03:13 PM
Whenever we use a /roll system for raids, we limit it to 1 epic/run until everyone has one then and only then can you get #2.
02-12-2009, 03:14 PM
if your tanks are any good, they will be working together to share the loot between themselves. If your tanks compete for loot, your doing it wrong.