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Eide
02-03-2009, 11:36 PM
I'm part of a guild of people who found each other over the course of years of playing WoW. You could call us a guild of friends I suppose. We run 10 man raids, and we're doing a reasonable job at it. We've cleared everything up to and including Sarth+2D. In that raid I'm one of the two tanks.

We recently started an alternative raid. Due to the size of the guild we can't take all the mains on the Naxx/Maly/Sarth runs. Also, it's a good habit in our guild to have eleventyseven alts who're all capable of doing Heroics, and often raids. To offer the remaining Mains and alts a chance to do Naxx as well we started this raid. Due to limitd options this raid consists of 2 Prot Warriors, 6 DPS and 2 Resto Druids. In the Alt raid I am the raid leader, and play one of the Resto Druids.

During our second week our Alt run cleared Spider, Plague and Military wing, but we ran into an oak door at Patchwerk. At Patchie both me and my fellow Resto Druid ran completly out of mana with Patch at 20%. We were just about able to keep up the tanks, but the spamhealing needed made us go OOM so fast it wasn't even remotely funny. Neither of us gets in trouble of any kind on any other boss.

I'm just wondering if there's any other raids who've encountered this problem, and how you worked around this? Also, for raids who did Patch with 2 Resto Druids, what was raid DPS like, and what stats were the Druids sitting at?

Thanks in advance.

tillara
02-04-2009, 04:19 AM
I'm a tree too, i've not 2 manned that fight but how are you splitting the healing? Are you both on both tanks or keeping individual targets? What heals are you using ?

Eide
02-04-2009, 04:45 AM
I was healing the MT, the other Tree was healing the OT. The drill we decided on was to concentrate on your own tank, while keeping Regrowth and Rejuv ticking on the other guys tank whenever possible.

For me that means I Start with Regrowth > Rejuv > Regrowth.
After that I started spamming Nourish (Would've preffered HT, but it was too slow) while keeping Regrowth and Rejuv ticking on both targets.

Both me and our other Tree have around 1600 Healing in tree unbuffed, and are quite near to each other stat wise.

dirt
02-04-2009, 06:12 AM
We run w/ two Resto druids, but I will admit we usually run w/ three healers. We tried Patchwerk a couple of times w/ just two healer and it did not go well. I imagine w/ just two of you guys, you are working really hard to keep both tanks up.

I'm sure it can be done with two. But some of the issue might be with how much damage the tanks are receiving. I know the OT is going to take some huge damage w/ the Hateful Strike he uses. We usually use our feral tank if he runs with us, otherwise me or the other warrior tank take turns. Both of us buffed are over 30k health. And both of our Resto Druids are 1800-1900.

Our group is usually: 2 Prot warriors, 2 DKs, 2 Hunters, 1 Mage, 2 Resto Druids & 1 H. Preist.

Runes
02-04-2009, 06:25 AM
Hmmm wouldn't it better to do patchwerk with both druids rolling Regrowth, Rejuv and Lifebloom on both tanks and using nourish? Or cast cancelling healing touches?

Eide
02-04-2009, 07:36 AM
Hmmm wouldn't it better to do patchwerk with both druids rolling Regrowth, Rejuv and Lifebloom on both tanks and using nourish? Or cast cancelling healing touches?

We're struggling to keep Regrowth and Rejuv rolling on both tanks, let alone adding Lifeblooms. We were spam casting Nourish and only just able to keep up, so to be honest, HT wil probably kill the tanks. Our biggest problem was the mana.

I really don't want to resort to two healers, as we're easily able to keep up the raid with just 2 on all other bosses, but maybe Patch is finally forcing us to our knees.

tillara
02-04-2009, 08:03 AM
as far as i am aware rejuv and regrowth dont stack, so doing it on each others targets merely refreshes early- granted giving the heal up front bit of regrowth into the bargain. same applies to lifebloom. If i'm right then that explains some of your mana burn through.

The healer for the MT can probably get away with regrowth and rejuv rolling with swiftmend ( hopefully with glyphed swiftmend) spammed every 15 secs and nourish. Swiftmend should buy some time. Spamming wild growth as often as possible would help out the OT healer too

the OT is definately going to need regrowth, rejuv and a full stack of lifebloom, with nourish spamming and swiftmend as often as it comes off cd and probably both healers using natures swiftness+HT in rotation. probably your mana wouldn't last to just spam HT throughout the fight

If you've got any dps druids you'll need their innervates.

I've heard of some people using a temporary third plate wearer as a hateful soaker for a hit or two

i think you've hit a hard fight! i'm sure that it is possible in theory :P would definately give me sweaty palms :P

nessin
02-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I've never raided as a Resto Druid, and our regular raid doesn't include a Resto Druid, so take the following advice with that mind.

I'd try putting the most mana efficient of the two of you on the OT, making sure to use whatever you can to get your mana regen up (Spirit/MP5 Food/Flasks, if you have a shaman make sure they're in the same party dropping Mana Tide, etc...) and be dedicated to spamming the big heals, making sure to NOT HEAL (for extra mana regen) when the Hateful tank manages an avoidance string. And the other Resto Druid (whiehever of you two that may be) keep rolling HoTs on both tanks with the occasional Wild Growth/Regrowth on the MT. Assuming you're tanks are reasonably geared, you should be able to keep the MT up on that alone, although it doesn't hurt to ensure they be prepared to pop cooldowns if they get below 25%.

If your OT healer can afford to stop spamming big heals, and isn't hurting for mana, then you can look at rolling Lifeblooms from the OT healer.

Erichilles
02-04-2009, 01:06 PM
we had a similiar problem with 25 patchwerk... (not 2 healing of course xP) but the druid healers actually respec'd for healing touch for that fight, reduced cast time and all that fun stuff... the fight is different on 25 since there are 2 hateful tanks and their health has to be taken into account, but i think cast cancelling healing touches should do you just fine

dyls
02-04-2009, 01:46 PM
as far as i am aware rejuv and regrowth dont stack, so doing it on each others targets merely refreshes early- granted giving the heal up front bit of regrowth into the bargain. same applies to lifebloom. If i'm right then that explains some of your mana burn through.

This is incorrect. They definitely do stack (as long as they are from different druids, obviously.)

How well are your tanks geared?

Do you have a lock? Would it be at all realistic to get another class (say an ele shammy for example) to stone back to town to respec just for that fight?

Eide
02-05-2009, 06:20 AM
This is incorrect. They definitely do stack (as long as they are from different druids, obviously.)

How well are your tanks geared?

Do you have a lock? Would it be at all realistic to get another class (say an ele shammy for example) to stone back to town to respec just for that fight?

Yes, obviously that would be a possibilty. It's one I don't want to resort to, as we're ok for all other content. I hope to find some clues as how to improve our performance with just two healers (Resto Druids). Respeccing for HT is something I've been considering.

Harlan
02-06-2009, 04:48 AM
Yes, obviously that would be a possibilty. It's one I don't want to resort to, as we're ok for all other content. I hope to find some clues as how to improve our performance with just two healers (Resto Druids). Respeccing for HT is something I've been considering.

How are you guys specced? Consider Nature's Grace. It'd probably be great for Patch since you guys are using regrowth. TBH, it sounds like you guys should work on rolling lifeblooms. At 70 I could keep LB up on 5 targets. Granted I was bored and didn't have to worry about regrowths, but you can now glyph it and extend it's duration. I've only healed 25man Patch (I'm usually soaking up hatefuls), but I definately don't envy you guys.

Only thing I can think of is to keep 4 stacks of Lifebloom, rejuv, and regrowth on the tanks. Swiftmend when necessary. Lifebloom should be your #1 priority though.

Verdekins
02-08-2009, 06:50 AM
We had our Resto Druid pretty much solo heal it. I personally think that your DPS was slacking a little to cause you to go out of mana. I haven't read all of the posts but the length of the fight with lower DPS may be making a large difference in how long you can last.

From the way she explains it to me. Shes specd to add 2 + 1 ( seconds ) from glyph and so on to Lifebloom, to heal she rolls all hots, LBx3, Rejuv, Regrowth, WG, Then spams nourish and refreshes HoTs when needed. Procing heals as needed as well. As well precasting on the tanks before they even take damage is important so you have heals in place before the damage flows in.

For you guys getting LB's up and bringing some replenishment buffs to raid will make a large difference.

Naros
02-10-2009, 10:23 AM
A lot of it could be dependent upon the gear the tanks are using too.

If the raid's DPS is somewhat low; its more important that both the MT and OT equip as much avoidance gears as possible to make the load on the healers that much easier. Chances are with low DPS; the fight will push nearly toward the enrage timer; thus being able to minimize damage on the tanks yields longevity for the healers.

With adequately geared avoidance tanks, two healers should have plenty of mana left. Put in two lesser geared tanks with the same healers and dps, and the healers will likely be near dry or sucking fumes at the end. Put in good tanks and healers and poor dps; chances that the latter may happen too :-/

Yakra
02-12-2009, 11:56 AM
From talking with my wife (Resto Druid) - Nourish is terrible. Regrowth is better, spammed, with the higher crit chance. And Lifebloom should defiantly be in there.

Kyuushi
02-12-2009, 02:16 PM
May I ask how you manage your heals?

Do you use addons such as Grid and Clique? If you'd like to investigate Grid, Keeva at Treebarkjacket.blogspot.com has a wonderful introductory post: Tree Bark Jacket: How-to Grid: HoT tracking (http://treebarkjacket.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-to-grid-hot-tracking.html)

If you check that link you'll see that you can track the time remaining on HoTs and know when to cast/recast as well as maintain stacks of lifebloom. I would suggest both druids maintain Regrowth, Rejuv, and 3x Lifebloom on both tanks and then designate Druid_A to Tank_A and Druid_B to Tank_B to heal the spike damage. I would also suggest using Regrowth instead of Nourish given Regrowth's huge crit rating.

Two healing Patchwerk is frenzied but as a Resto Druid you really do need to keep your rhythm. Don't frantically recast an unneeded rejuv if rejuv is up. Don't constantly cast Lifebloom if it's not going to fall off in the next couple seconds. Two sets of rolling HoTs should help smoothe out the damage and you can fill in with Regrowth. Both tanks should be close enough to each other that tossing out Wild Growth will also be of use.

I would also check your Glyphs. Glyphs like Swiftmend, Regrowth, Innervate and Lifebloom come in very handy on Patchwerk.

As well, are you running with someone who can replenish mana for you? Shadow Priest, Ret Paladin, Survival Hunter?

I hope this helped.

-Kyuushi

Eide
02-12-2009, 11:31 PM
I use Healbot, which I prefer over Grid and Clique. I don't know what Ehaz is using. We're both properly Glyphed. I can also confirm it's just Patchwerk. Last Tuesday we healed through Thaddius, Saph and Kellie'T without any issues

From what I've seen I gotta work on a new rotation for Patchie where I keep up LB as well. Worth a try I suppose.

Thanks for all the input.

Lachesis
02-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Definately try that new rotation. I will say, though, that I tend not to completely trust resto druids for the way patch hits- hard and fast. If you have a class in your raid that can heal but isn't (ele shaman, ret pally, etc) consider having them offheal for the fight.

manatank
02-13-2009, 03:19 PM
If you aren't using 3xLB on both tanks per druid you are missing a massive amount of mana efficient healing.

Druids have all the tools to heal this fight effectively.

Eide
02-15-2009, 03:28 PM
Just as an heads-up.

We nailed Patchwerk this week with just our 2 Druid healers. We had an extra druid (for an extra innervate) and a survival hunter there, which make a bit of a difference. I suppose our tanks geared up a little too, as they were a lot easier to heal. The way we did it this week was;
We both had our own target, with Regrowth, Rejuv and LB running
Regrowth and Rejuv on the other tank
Nourish for spam.

It was a pretty easy kill in the end, and pretty nice considering we're all alts of our main raid (main raid is on Sarth+2D, we only do 10 man content)