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dawnrose
02-02-2009, 04:52 AM
When I got like 4-5 elementals on me, and new elementals spawn, I find it rather hard to target/see the new spawns in 25 mode. And at the same time I need to watch out for void zones and lava strikes if we're doing Sartharion with a drake up. So how do you experienced add tanks do this?

I've so far only tanked it without drake up, as I didn't dare to do it with added void zones and the added damage from the drake aswell. And I gotta say it was challenging for me. Nobody died from the fire elementals, but I like to know how I can do my job better. Any tips?

Tank stats:
57% pure avoidance, 20% block, 27k hp unbuffed

Tentcale
02-02-2009, 06:19 AM
The way I do it is zoom out as much as I can with the camera and spam TC and shockwave and just move around alot.

Xav
02-02-2009, 07:40 AM
Keep moving. Use intervene and charge frequently to get around. Don't forget taunt has a 30 yard range now, letting you pick stuff up very far away. Heroic Throw works decently too.

Warriors are the best class for the role due to their incredible mobility, and being able to block. Make sure whenever you do move, you aren't exposing your back to the mobs. When opportunities arise, use shockwave to stun all of the adds you're tanking to reduce the damage you take.

You're going to have to practice it so it becomes something you enjoy and are comfortable doing, because you will eventually have to spontaneously pick up a bunch of whelps while at the same time not letting people get hit by blazes. With several drakes up, a blaze can kill someone in a few swings, and if they're enraged, one swing if it's a crit.

greendragonempire
02-02-2009, 08:51 AM
I've never had a problem tanking ellies, tc and shout alot ... and move from firewalls ...

not much beyond that

Rabidwombat
02-02-2009, 10:02 AM
The first several times you tank the adds will feel like chaos. I have only experienced in on 10man, but was ready to pull my hair out at the end. As Xav said, it will take some practice to become comfortable with the pandemonium that occurs. Mobility is key and so is using all of your taunts effectively.

dawnrose
02-02-2009, 11:04 AM
thanks for the replies, but I'm a paladin, not a warrior, meaning no aoe stun on elementals(only ud & demons and on relatively long cd).
holding aggro isn't much of an issue. The issue is more of, how do you do all these things at the same time, what do you prioritize on? I'll keep that tip of moving around a lot in mind. What is the best place to stand to tank the fire elementals? How do you see void zones spawning beneath you when there is a whole bunch of elementals beating on you?

greendragonempire
02-02-2009, 11:54 AM
Go to a high level area and pull 20 lv 79-80 mobs and pratice moving around without turning your back to them if you are having problems.

oh and make sure your camera is at zoomed out to max, there is even a script command to increase the zoom distance

Kuwadora
02-02-2009, 01:53 PM
If you're doing it with drake(s) up, use vigilance on the Sarth tank. Your taunt should refresh often enough to snare every add before it kills healers.

ar10
02-02-2009, 03:08 PM
Vig vig vig! I think warrs are ideal for doing adds because of the unlimited taunt. Make sure you hit "v" so you can see the enemy life bars, as elemental spawns are ridiculously hard to see. Just stand with the ranged group and tab-taunt adds every time they come. I taunt, SS (or Rev), and then tc - just keep tab targeting in rotation to maintain steady aggro. I usually only SW after waves so the adds don't get stuck out of position. Remind hunters to tranq shot any adds that enrage.

dawnrose
02-03-2009, 01:31 AM
Where did I ever say I was a warrior :S
I am a paladin, I don't have Vigilance, I got a 40 yd taunt(for 3 enemies of a friendly) and a 30 yd taunt.
The 40 yd taunt also brings a risk, if any of the 3 mobs I taunt, targets the main tank at the same time I taunt, there is a chance I also taunt Sartharion. Shouldn't happen, but you never know, sartharion with drakes up, especially in 25 mode, is quite chaotic.
My problem is I have little experience in how to quickly target the enemie elemental mob among 15 friendly units(my raid members) and taunt it, while at the same time watching out for lava waves & void zones.

greendragonempire
02-03-2009, 08:26 AM
Where did I ever say I was a warrior :S
I am a paladin, I don't have Vigilance, I got a 40 yd taunt(for 3 enemies of a friendly) and a 30 yd taunt.
The 40 yd taunt also brings a risk, if any of the 3 mobs I taunt, targets the main tank at the same time I taunt, there is a chance I also taunt Sartharion. Shouldn't happen, but you never know, sartharion with drakes up, especially in 25 mode, is quite chaotic.
My problem is I have little experience in how to quickly target the enemie elemental mob among 15 friendly units(my raid members) and taunt it, while at the same time watching out for lava waves & void zones.

Perhaps you should tank the drakes while your prot war corrals the adds, have a druid mt sarth

Xav
02-03-2009, 02:14 PM
My problem is I have little experience in how to quickly target the enemie elemental mob among 15 friendly units(my raid members) and taunt it, while at the same time watching out for lava waves & void zones.

And now you have answered your own question, and know what you need to practice on!

Fayre
02-03-2009, 05:35 PM
Having enemy name plates up will help a little bit with the targetting I've found :)

Molohk
02-03-2009, 05:54 PM
It helps to have your raid semi-bunched up, that way all the adds converge.

With a few DKs and AoErs, it can be tough to spot them. If you turn spell detaill all the way down, it's much easier to see them.

NotSerious
02-05-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm still relatively new to end-game tanking, and I'm a bear, so this may be either obvious to you and everyone else (or there may be very good reasons why you shouldn't do it) but one thing I found helped my efficiency in picking up adds was keybinding a macro that taunted the mouseover target and then returned to my previous target (/targetlasttarget) onto my mousewheel click. That way, I can be running around, maintaining aggro on stuff and can taunt a new add, or an escapee, back to myself without really stopping what I was doing.

Shkrull
02-05-2009, 11:03 AM
The way i found to make it easier is in the Interface Options. I disabled every friendly player/mob/creatures /++ name plates and activated Enemy name plates. So now, no matter how far any mobs are, i always see a red name over their head, and the gazillion of green names from the raid+pets aren't in the way.

For close ones you have the health bars so i doubt anyone could miss them anyways.

dawnrose
02-09-2009, 07:52 AM
Thanks for this very informative post :)

bouyeeze
02-09-2009, 08:13 AM
I off tanked this yesterday, 25 man version, as a prot pally. To keep gathering adds I generally hung back with the healers/ranged dps since they were often to do the aggro pulling of the adds themselves then I could easily grab the elementals from there. If the elementals were stuck to some of the melee dps, I'd run in, drop a consecration and a hammer of righteousness or 2 and generally have all of them, then move back with the healers again. My mages and locks knew to spam AoE's on me when I moved back and it worked fairly smoothly from there.

Try to refrain from using righteous defense (the 3 enemy taunt) unless you 100% know the mob isn't after your MT. Generally I only used it when the elementals were attacking healers/ranged because it was obvious I wouldn't aggro Sarth with a taunt. Our single target taunt is also handy for grabbing mobs out from underneath Sarth.

Near the end it's going to get out of control, but just keep spamming every AoE you have (consecration, hammer of the righteous, avengers sheild) and do your best. It's really up to the DPS to pop CDs and finish Sarth in a timely manner when the elemental spawn rate goes through the roof.

For those who think this task is tuned to warriors, I beg to differ. Paladins can do it quite easily as well. Raid makeup was 2 tanks, 4 healers, 17 dps (1 DC'd), and 1 was a pug who was terrible and pulled about 800 dps on Sarth (would you believe he was duel wielding 2 white quality weapons?). I had a holy paly dedicated to me alone and he kept me up with no problems. I think 3 DPS died during the fight.

1 final noteworthy thing is that the flame waves empower the elementals, so do your best to pull them with you out of the flamewaves, and it makes everybody's life easier.

slashtankadin
02-10-2009, 03:49 AM
palla tanks are a realy good class to take the adds, our concacration keeps AoE threat up realy well and now that we have our new taunt its easy to take adds off the sarth tank or healers

Joxur
02-12-2009, 10:39 AM
1. Turn enemy nameplates on, friendly nameplates off.
2. We had a holy pally turn on righteous fury so that his heals on our tank would draw the mobs to him. Makes it a bit easier to intercept if he stands closer to Sarth in a fixed position, because a lot of times, the adds would go straight to him, but still give the add tank plenty of time to intercept before they do much harm. Face it, they are going to aggro someone besides the tank when they first spawn, and this is a good way to make that somewhat more predictable.
3. Turn spell effects down.

But yeah, vigilance makes this really easy for warriors.

If you have more than 1 tank for the adds, you could have the pally stand near the drake being tanked with consecrate running, and the other tank fetching adds and dragging into the consecrate, rinse/repeat. Makes it a little less schizophrenic compared to two tanks running all over the place.

breaklance
02-12-2009, 10:57 AM
Enemy Name Plates on

My guild uses 2 tanks for adds since we've been doing 2d or 3d. It makes it easier for round up, and I can still run around keeping debuffs on drakes.

I generally find it easiest to hang with the ranged/healers since mosto f the adds will go for healers. Occasionally adds spawn within a melee's whirlwind range at which point they're just a taunt away.

The only time you should have trouble with fire adds is at sarth's enrage and your the only add tank. Which our guild has 3 at that point since the drake tank is no longer tanking drakes.

Tankette
02-12-2009, 01:35 PM
We almost always have a pally as OT on these adds and rarely have any problems. I can't tell you what abilities the pally uses but we usually have a hunter or two that are assigned to dps the adds that really help out. They can do a misdirect to the OT. They can pull aggro on an add then feign death when the add gets near them and the OT can taunt. And I think they can use tanquilizing shot to take the add out of frenzy if it has been hit by a flame wave. Not sure about that. I'm almost always MT so I'm usually only half listening to what is going on with the adds.

ivanstone
02-23-2009, 08:17 PM
I have a question regarding blocking the Lava Blazes. I was under the impression that you couldn't block an elemental's melee attack. WWS logs of the Blazes seem to support this.

On the other hand, I can go to WG and successfully block the Fire Elementals melee attacks there (which do hit for fire damage).

So am I missing something here?

bouyeeze
03-02-2009, 05:25 AM
I have a question regarding blocking the Lava Blazes. I was under the impression that you couldn't block an elemental's melee attack. WWS logs of the Blazes seem to support this.


One of recent patches changed this (may have been 3.0). Elemental melee swings are now blockable.

Akeber
03-02-2009, 09:29 AM
One of recent patches changed this (may have been 3.0). Elemental melee swings are now blockable.

We had started this discussion in another thread bouyeeze, but it seems to have died. Here is what I had posted:


I though this was the case too, until I had looked at my incoming damage and didn't see any blocks (or partials) from the Lava Blazes.

I had look at my combat log from last and the incoming damage from the Lava Blazes is inconsistent in places:


20:28'29.075 Lava Blaze #10 melee swing hits Akeber for 645 Fire. (379 Resisted)
20:28'29.359 Lava Blaze #12 attack was dodged by Akeber.
20:28'30.728 Lava Blaze #11 attack was parried by Akeber.
20:28'31.114 Lava Blaze #10 melee swing hits Akeber for 445 Fire. (620 Resisted)
20:28'31.380 Lava Blaze #12 melee swing hits Akeber for 773 Fire. (668 Resisted)
20:28'32.721 Lava Blaze #11 attack was fully resisted by Akeber.
20:28'33.126 Lava Blaze #10 attack was dodged by Akeber.
20:28'33.384 Lava Blaze #12 melee swing hits Akeber for 1037 Fire. (412 Resisted)
20:28'33.906 Lava Blaze #11 melee swing hits Akeber for 234 Fire. (343 Resisted)
20:28'35.139 Lava Blaze #10 melee swing hits Akeber for 3715 Fire. (547 Resisted)
20:28'35.322 Lava Blaze #12 melee swing hits Akeber for 3691 Fire. (846 Resisted)
20:28'35.504 Lava Blaze #13 melee swing hits Akeber for 1969 Fire. (219 Resisted)

Some of those may have been enraged, which would account for some differences. The, here and there, I get an actual block:

20:37'48.575 Lava Blaze #30 melee swing hits Akeber for 1088 Fire. (1371 Blocked) (140 Absorbed)
20:37'48.958 Lava Blaze #26 melee swing hits Akeber for 75 Fire. (375 Resisted) (140 Absorbed)
20:37'49.275 Lava Blaze #22 melee swing hits Akeber for 3366 Fire. (225 Resisted)
20:37'50.043 Lava Blaze #20 melee swing hits Akeber for 3004 Fire. (452 Resisted)
20:37'50.994 Lava Blaze #30 melee swing hits Akeber for 5082 Fire.
20:37'51.178 Lava Blaze #24 melee swing hits Akeber for 3002 Fire. (1371 Blocked)
20:37'51.178 Lava Blaze #27 attack misses Akeber.

I'm not running around with my back turned (maybe sometimes), and I'm keeping holy shield up. Anyone noticed the same odd behavior from lava blaze damage?

Aens77
03-02-2009, 11:23 AM
I came across this script some time ago to allow me to zoom out more than what the game allowed

/script SetCVar ("cameraDistancemax" ,50)

I never set it up on my paladin until i got into OS and i needed to see more than what was allowed. In my guild or in pugs I get the honor of gathering the adds. 2 Reasons for that. The OTs in pugs are usually not very bright and target the boss in their haste taunting him off for a moment or 2 moving him in an odd postition, Secondly I rather do the adds b/c I am good at it.

Like Joxur said Turn on Nameplates....I Zoom out as far as I can and work the camera to get what I need. I wont say I am great but I do a very good job of getting the adds on me and having the AoE kill them.

When I tank the boss its a mess so I will stay on adds.

ivanstone
03-02-2009, 04:41 PM
We had started this discussion in another thread bouyeeze, but it seems to have died. Here is what I had posted:

A tankadin guildmate of mine has a pet theory that we talked about recently. If an elemental's attack is both blockable and resistable, how does it display when both happen in the combat log?

It seems that it doesn't. I've checked some WWS logs and I don't see both. I see full resists a fair amount but not blocked, resisted attacks.

Using this post on resists:
Resistance Mechanics in WotLK - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t44675-resistance_mechanics_wotlk/)

If you're running medium resist (~200), you're not going to see full resists. So I am beginning to think that blocking is very useful for the Lava Blazes.

dawnrose
03-04-2009, 04:40 AM
Actually the resistance value has nothing to do with how much percentage is resisted. Each time you can resist something, you will either not resist it, resist it for 25%, for 50%, 75% or 100%(full resist).

Although I think for those Lava Blazes, I think it's only the base damage that gets resisted, not the enraged damage. When adds were normal, I saw around 150 resist values and 600 resist values, but I saw the same resist values when they were enraged while they damage was 10 times as large.

BTW, yesterday I got my Twilight Zone achievement after two days of attempts. My guild already had the normal achievement for s3d so was only doing it on a larger scale.

ivanstone
03-04-2009, 07:15 AM
Actually the resistance value has nothing to do with how much percentage is resisted. Each time you can resist something, you will either not resist it, resist it for 25%, for 50%, 75% or 100%(full resist).


No, that is no longer correct.

Read the EJ post I used in my previous post. It works in increments of 10% and wearing a certain amount of resist gear will guarantee a certain amount of damage reduced. For example. if you're wearing 300 Resist, you will resist at least 30% of incoming damage and at most 60%.