View Full Version : 10 Man 4 horseman
02-01-2009, 07:25 PM
I cant seem to get a straight answer to swithing with the two bosses in the front on a ten man 4 horseman run. Does just the two tanks switch when getting 3 ticks or does both groups switch when the tanks get 3 ticks I'm aware the tanks switch bosses to tank.
02-01-2009, 08:29 PM
How we do it:
2 groups at the front (1 tank with each group). 1 healer on the platform. 2 people to tank the back 2.
When the marks stack to 3, front tanks will move to the middle with their groups and swap targets. Tanks will then pull back to their corners. Their groups will stay with their respective tanks, i.e. no switching. We have the entire group moving to spread out Thane's meteor damage.
Hope that helps.
02-02-2009, 02:21 AM
1 dps back left corner, dps'ing at range
1 dps back right corner, same thing.
1 tank & 2 dps right front corner.
1 tank & 2 dps left front corner.
1 healer left side between the two left groups, close enough to heal both tanks, far enough from the ranged tank to avoid getting marks.
1 healer right side, same thing.
MT pulls the meteor guy (2nd from the left), tanks him in the corner, typically pulled in like 5 yards toward his healer so the healer doesn't complain about range issues. Dps stacks on the tank or thereabouts for this mob, not necessarily for the other. MT waits until he gets two marks *and* a meteor has just hit, then calls "switch" and runs like hell toward the OT. The OT runs toward him. When both are in taunt range they taunt and run back to their corner with the new mob. When the old debufs are gone, *and* the OT has >= 2 stacks of the new debuf, *and* meteor has just hit, he calls "switch" and things continue in obvious fashion.
Guys in back switch every time they have a couple stacks.
Healers have to be pretty strong. Similar strat works in 25, too. It's easy.
Typical failures involve letting a back tank die, which is a wipe normally, and letting a front tank die on switch, which is not necessarily. If this happens the remaining tank can pull both mobs back into his corner and everyone just beats the hell out of the mob he's been tanking longest, then the other one.
02-03-2009, 01:10 AM
I try to keep raids on a nice "need to know" basis. Because of this, i wont apply confusing tactics if i can accomplish the goal with simple instructions. An example could be on Anub'Rekhan - when my raiders were introduced to this boss the first time, they were told "Kill the adds, spread out and run to the middle when i tell you to". Not a problem.
On Four Horsepeople, we usually have 3 healers (we generally run with 3 healers throughout the Naxx run). In the back of the room, we have a healer and a DPS (or if low on healers, two hybrids that can heal themselves). On Baron R. we have a tank and a healer, and everybody else (tank, healer and the remaining DPS) is on Thrane.
Depending on how our DPS is, we will either kill Thrane or switch. Usually we have plenty of DPS to get him down, and while we might stack 5 debuffs, thats hardly a problem. If i do decide to switch, we do so at 3 stacks, simply having the groups switch position and make sure that the horseman stays in his corner.
Usually, as i said, we just kill Thrane off the bat, so when we run to Baron R. we have the tank and healer (who will have quite a few stacks) to run to the back and help out a bit there while we finish off Baron.
The people in the back of the room always switches, even after the rest of us comes up there. They are watching each other, and will switch independantly from us, whenever one of them has three stacks.
My group does this for transfers:
Wait for 3 stacks, immediately move towards the other group. The horsemen themselves stay in their corner. All dps,tanks, healers switch sides. The two tanks just taunt the new horseman as they run by each other.
02-03-2009, 06:46 AM
when we switch tanks on Baron/Thane, we wait until immediately after a meteor, then ONLY the tanks move to middle, swap taunt, and move back to group. There is plenty of time between meteor casts to swap horsemen and get back to the group -- even if he casts a meteor while you're moving, simply turn and run back to group, and meteor will actually miss you entirely, hitting the ground where you were when he started casting. Thane will close back on you when he finishes his cast.
Another tactic we found easier if enough DPS to accomplish it -- have all DPS start on Thane, ignore the marks, burn all dps cooldowns and kill him. Then entire Thane group runs over to Baron while the Baron tank/healer clear out to let marks fade, and swap in and out on Baron only until dead. Then head for the back two and just make sure there is always someone in range of each, and burn them down.
02-03-2009, 08:21 AM
I've heard different ways of doing this, but the way I usually run my groups for the front is that we have the 2 tanks meet in the middle while everyone else stands still in the corner. The tanks switch in the middle, and bring the other one back to the corner they were already in. I've also heard of everyone following, with the tanks switching and everyone switching corners, but I find if only the tanks aggro off one another its less stress for everyone else.
We have 2 versions for this fight. I'll explain them both.
Both Version 1 and Version 2 start from the same basis. We have 2 "normal" Tanks and and 2 "ranged" tanks. We always work with 2 healers, aiding by an offhealer if and when needed. The ranged tanks are usually 2 DK's, but we've also used Moonkins for this job.
The "ranged" tank fight is the same for both versions. The "ranged" tanks and their healer run to their assigned spots and fight their own battle. "Ranged" tanks swap positions every 3 stacks. The healer just moves from one side to the other, making sure he doesn't get more than 2 stacks at any time.
This version relies on sheer DPS, Thane needs to be nuked down before his mark stacks over 3 stacks, in other words, Thane dies within 40(?) seconds. One "normal" tank pick ups Thane, one "normal" tank picks up Baron and tank them in their corners.
The Baron tank (a Paladin usually) is HoTTed up and is then left to survive on his own (LoH, self Healing etc).
The Thane tank, 1 healer and all the DPS then nuke down Thane.
Just before Thane dies the Thane tank starts moving toward Baron, and Taunts Baron off the Tank there asap. The raid then nukes down Baron asap, moving in and out of mark range as needed to drain away mark stacks. There's now two tanks available for Baron (after the initial Baron tank has lost his marks, usually 4) and they two swap as needed to keep the fight easy.
From there the raid casually kill the last two horsemen, again making sure the stacks don't get any higher than 3 (2 prefferably).
The trick here is to kill Thane FAST.
This version is used when raid DPS isn't high enough to nuke down Thane. It's like other tactics described in this thread. This tactic requires an offhealer. One "real" healer heals the Raid + the tank for the Thane corner, one "real" healer heals the initial Baron tank, the offhealer heals the "ranged" tanks.
One "normal" tank pick ups Thane, one "normal" tank picks up Baron and tank them in their corners. The DPS is in the corner where Thane starts this fight. Just before the Marks stack to 3 the Tanks run towards each other. The Thane tank taunts Baron and takes him back to his original cornor, the Baron tank does the same with Thane. The raid stays where they are. This process is repeated untill either Thane or Baron dies. When that happens the other melee boss is killed asap, and then the two ranged bosses.
All along the raid makes sure the marks of any given boss don't stack over 3. This can only happen after either Thane or Baron has died, because before that time the tanks are handing them over.
The only real difference between V1 and V2 is that in V2 the BOSSES switch positions because the tanks hand them over to each other, and in V1 Thane gets burned down before a handover has to take place. The advantage of V1 is that it only requires two healers, but it requires around 14k Damage Per Second from the 4 Damage dealers + Tank at Thane. V2 requires much less gear, but it's a much slower fight.