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View Full Version : Red sword vs slayer of lifeless?



velouriam
01-31-2009, 12:35 AM
So i have the red sword of courage and just won the slayer of lifeless in 10 man nax. they are very similliar in stats except i gain more dodge with slayer but i lose hit and defense goes down so i lose some avoidance even tho im over capped. Heres my armory

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bladefist&n=Velouriam)

which one should i use?

KenjiWB
01-31-2009, 12:36 AM
Slayer

Purplz
01-31-2009, 12:48 AM
I wouldn't just keep one weapon that you use all the time. Since the courage has hit, it will in the long run increase your TPS, if you see on some fights you have problems with threat, swap to your courage. If your healers are having problems keeping you up on a certain fight, use slayer. Slayer is actually .10 faster than courage, but i believe the extra hit on courage in the long run is more TPS.

Kataztrophe
01-31-2009, 01:02 AM
Vendor your Red Sword. Use Slayer.

velouriam
01-31-2009, 01:08 AM
Vendor your Red Sword. Use Slayer.

lol slayer looks uber dumb tho. Red sword is like one of the all time coolest looking wow tank swords. too bad it was a measly heroic sword. (not that i would make my gear decisions on looks by any means :P)
Altho i think i will keep it like purplz says and use it in different scenarios. ty for the responses :)

btw, kataztrophe, i ran nax with u once in a pug group. didnt know anyone from my server used this site. hows it hangin lol

Grawr
01-31-2009, 01:25 AM
So after 15 runs of H UP I finally get my Red Sword. And then the next night Slayer drops and I win the roll. So, what do I do?! :( I'm keeping Red Sword for my threat set with Titanium Weapon Chain + the high hit rating, and Slayer for my avoidance set, with +26 agil and the +dodge on Slayer. Not sure if that's best but after all that effort I'm not just gonna vendor Red Sword :P

Kataztrophe
01-31-2009, 02:52 AM
lol slayer looks uber dumb tho. Red sword is like one of the all time coolest looking wow tank swords. too bad it was a measly heroic sword. (not that i would make my gear decisions on looks by any means :P)
Altho i think i will keep it like purplz says and use it in different scenarios. ty for the responses :)

btw, kataztrophe, i ran nax with u once in a pug group. didnt know anyone from my server used this site. hows it hangin lol

Hey I remember you man. Yup, I been checking out this site for about a year and some change but didn't really post till LK. Haven't seen anyone else from BF in that time.

Oh yea and I agree. Red Sword does look 10 x's cooler then SOTL. WTB a Last Laugh!

Muffin Man
01-31-2009, 02:54 AM
Slayer's higher avoidance and faster swing make it really nice for high rage fights. IE bosses who are beating the crap out of you :p.

It's probably a marginal difference, but since you have both that's how I'd look at it.

PS. Slayer of the Lifeless is a sweet looking sword :p

ae0n3
01-31-2009, 03:20 AM
definitely keep both and use them in different situations for different sets. also, as you upgrade your gear you might find yourself needing the extra defense on the red sword from time to time.

Tnar
01-31-2009, 12:02 PM
if you have both DW ftw...shields are for wussies

velouriam
02-01-2009, 08:59 PM
on a quick side note, i was watching the wow south park episode and saw the sword of a thousand truths and was like "wtf! thats the slayer of the lifeless!" Its completly identical lol so i guess this means im no longer a noob :P

Arrivan
02-01-2009, 09:44 PM
on a quick side note, i was watching the wow south park episode and saw the sword of a thousand truths and was like "wtf! thats the slayer of the lifeless!" Its completly identical lol so i guess this means im no longer a noob :P

The sword model they used in that South Park episode was actually The Hungering Cold - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23577). They reused the graphic for the Slayer of the Lifeless :)

Apx
02-01-2009, 10:53 PM
I have both and I much prefer slayer of the lifeless.. Although both look equally cool I am a big fan of swords that go on your back and an even bigger fan of swords with the exact same model as frostmourne... (QQ?)
BTW why is that? If I got a kara sword that looked like the warglaives i'd have murdered someone.

Chanserv
02-02-2009, 12:16 AM
on a quick side note, i was watching the wow south park episode and saw the sword of a thousand truths and was like "wtf! thats the slayer of the lifeless!" Its completly identical lol so i guess this means im no longer a noob :P

that and it says fortold by salzman on the bottom of it...



"how do you kill one which has no life.. "

"who fortold this prophecy?
salzman.. he's from accounting. "

i have both as well, and prefer to use the slayer threat is fine for me, and the extra advoidence helps more.. even thou i lose like 11hp.. plus i like ballin around with the sword of 1000 truf's

Delerious
02-02-2009, 09:40 AM
This seems like the old Sun Eater vs King's Defender type situation from tbc. Definetly keep both since one has more avoidance whereas other is better for threat.

Tankette
02-02-2009, 12:41 PM
You're killing me. I can't get either of these swords to drop. I do Pinnacle just about every day and Naxx every week. I'm still sporting the Infantry Assault Blade.:o Yesterday I took this mage with me to Pinnacle that swore the Red Sword ALWAYS drops when he runs it. He bet me 20 gold that it would drop. So at least I made 20 gold for that run.:rolleyes:

Two pally tanks in my guild both got the Red Sword on their first runs of Pinnacle. No fair.:mad: I've run it at least 15 times now.:mad: Cleared 10 man Naxx 6 times.:mad: QQQ cry cry cry

there

I feel better now.

veneretio
02-02-2009, 01:27 PM
This seems like the old Sun Eater vs King's Defender type situation from tbc. Definetly keep both since one has more avoidance whereas other is better for threat.
I don't think that's accurate. This really is all about the Slayer. It's got more avoidance thus more survivability and being 0.1 faster, it's got far superior threat/dps. I'm all for multiple sets so that you can customize your toon properly given the situation, but ultimately you're safe to vendor the Red Sword in this case. The Slayer is superior.

Delerious
02-02-2009, 06:12 PM
I looked more closely at the weapon stats and it seems your right. The Red Sword only has .2% more hit and 2 def in its favour, whereas the Slayer has another .66% dodge as well. Disregard what I said above.

Rhyseh
02-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Slayer is faster and the disparity between the stats is not enough to cancel out the faster swing speed. Slayer of the lifeless is superiour.

EDIT: Also looks cooler

thedrawrf
02-02-2009, 08:02 PM
Slayer displays on your back. End of debate.

Juon
02-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Slayer displays on your back. End of debate.

./agree, and i purposely equip the Lorderon shield, though I have better, just to show THREE swords from your back.

Niian
02-02-2009, 09:15 PM
Plus the slayer matches my ugly Skull of Ruin!

Kaumu
02-03-2009, 01:30 AM
I'm running Barricade of Eternity with Broken Promise, the shield covers my entire character let alone just my sword :P

Tankette
02-03-2009, 08:26 AM
The Red Sword finally dropped for me last night.:) Maybe I'll get the Salyer this week too. I'm feeling lucky now.;)

I take it that both of these are better than the Broken Promise due to the speed factor?

thedrawrf
02-03-2009, 04:31 PM
The Red Sword finally dropped for me last night.:) Maybe I'll get the Salyer this week too. I'm feeling lucky now.;)

I take it that both of these are better than the Broken Promise due to the speed factor?

If deep wounds gets nerfed, as I hear it will, yes. If it doesn't...they're close to equal.

Rhyseh
02-03-2009, 04:35 PM
If deep wounds gets nerfed, as I hear it will, yes. If it doesn't...they're close to equal.

Depends really, the stats on Broken Promise - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40345) is quite nice, however the HS swing speed factor also plays into it.... We need some number crunching to back this up.

thedrawrf
02-03-2009, 04:49 PM
Ya, didn't mean this to be accepted as cannon, but it's what I've seen around wowhead and the forums.

Whitegold
02-03-2009, 09:51 PM
Personally I'm using a blue quest reward sword. Broken Promise, Slayer, Red Sword... Last Laugh... I'll take what I can get. :)

And damn my healer for refusing to go to H UP.

Forklift
02-03-2009, 11:01 PM
Um, Red Sword has 38 defense to Slayer's 25. Use Red Sword when you're short of the cap. That's the only difference to me.

AxLxExX
02-03-2009, 11:18 PM
The minute I got my slayer I stopped attempting to Pug UP. We rarely made it past Skadi and after more than 20 final boss kills in UP, I finally gave up.

No more UP. I'm all set with my slayer.

Fyran
02-06-2009, 07:44 AM
The minute I got my slayer I stopped attempting to Pug UP. We rarely made it past Skadi and after more than 20 final boss kills in UP, I finally gave up.

No more UP. I'm all set with my slayer.

I ran UP every day since the day I hit 80. No red sword. Naxx 10? No slayer.

I guess I used all my dropluck when I set foot into heroic CoT4 the minute I dinged 80 (first heroic I tanked), finished the time event like 2seconds before the mob disappeared through the portal, got the drake and got lordearon's crest out of the chest. good times. ever since then it's been a tough time getting tank stuff to drop :(..

btt:
slayer >>>> red sword, it gets extra points for looking that freaking awesome, though.

Muffin Man
02-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Depends really, the stats on Broken Promise - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40345) is quite nice, however the HS swing speed factor also plays into it.... We need some number crunching to back this up.

There was another thread on this http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/44550-broken-promise-vs-red-sword.html

Conclusion was on certain fights BP won't let you dump rage fast enough. The better stats on BP don't make up for the lost HS volume in that case. Dunno what the breakpoint is. Someone else said he had a spreadsheet on this, but I can't find that post or remember the numbers ATM.

Magnatitus
02-11-2009, 05:40 AM
Maybe its just me, (I have both the Red Sword and the Slayer of the Lifeless), I find that when using my Slayer i hit for a lot less damage EACH hit. Thus, my TPS goes down just a little. The red sword actually puts out more threat for me. I'm a Tauren so there is no racial there, its just the higher damage hits end up putting out more TPS.

The hit on the slayer is nice, but I just havent seen it add up to more TPS than the red sword.

But, i agree.. Vanity gets the better of me sometimes and I end up running with it. that or Broken Promise.

Gadholm
02-11-2009, 10:46 AM
Maybe its just me, (I have both the Red Sword and the Slayer of the Lifeless), I find that when using my Slayer i hit for a lot less damage EACH hit. Thus, my TPS goes down just a little. The red sword actually puts out more threat for me. I'm a Tauren so there is no racial there, its just the higher damage hits end up putting out more TPS.

The hit on the slayer is nice, but I just havent seen it add up to more TPS than the red sword.

But, i agree.. Vanity gets the better of me sometimes and I end up running with it. that or Broken Promise.

I highly doubt that you'd find that accurate if you went over a WWS parse of your use of Red Sword vs. Slayer. Unless you're just not using HS in high-rage situations, the higher weapon speed is going to correspond to higher threat. Of course you're going to see a slightly higher damage number with a slower weapon, but its not worth it in the long run.

And it most certainly is canon that Broken Promise < Slayer/Red Sword.

Muffin Man
02-11-2009, 03:03 PM
Maybe its just me, (I have both the Red Sword and the Slayer of the Lifeless), I find that when using my Slayer i hit for a lot less damage EACH hit. Thus, my TPS goes down just a little. The red sword actually puts out more threat for me. I'm a Tauren so there is no racial there, its just the higher damage hits end up putting out more TPS.

The hit on the slayer is nice, but I just havent seen it add up to more TPS than the red sword.

The slayer has more dps than the red sword (because it has +4 strength). But because it swing 0.1 second faster each hit really is smaller, around 15 damage. It shouldn't be that noticeable though, as that's something like 7 dmg on a devastate.

If you aren't heroic striking a lot, then red sword will actually put out more threat/dps because the instants hit ever so slightly harder and red sword actually has more hit than the slayer.

Honestly the two swords are virtually identical, both threat wise and survivability wise. Slayer comes out ahead just a little bit in both categories (situational though: not rage starved and don't need the extra def on red sword to maintain 540 def).

Bullwerk
02-13-2009, 12:13 PM
Toss Accuracy on the Slayer and forget about ol' Red. As stated above the stat difference between the two is a slight loss of hit and def for a big gain in Dodge. With the enchant the Slayer provides plenty of hit to maximize TPS along with the increased swing speed. Remember avoidance is never bad when tanking the big uglies that like to hit hard and honestly if the the slight TPS/DPS difference between the two no matter which way you claim it falls) is clincing whether you kill a boss before timers then, well, you have bigger problems in the raid than your weapon selection.

Oh and forthe whole loss of defense.. .go get Repelling Charge of Thaddius 10 man and never worry again. I use that trinket with Lavanthors and all my block gear for nasty SS's and AoE fun on trash and still manage 539 Defense. Whoopie one point below cap... never been crit (not even on bosses)

Vallhana of Wildhammer
02-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Hit and Expertise may be some of the warrior best threat skills required i would certainly keep your Red Sword for threat build do to the fact if u dodge more u generate less threat and if u got more hit the u generate more threat so ur overall threat is goin up with this weapon, BUT! after u got enough rage just switch it up mid boss fight, more metigation = less dmg taken. In any case there both good weapons, id prefer a Slayer over Red sword, just pop an "Accuracy" Chant on your slayer and you keep a good amount of metigation (more so the mongoose on slayer...i think O.o cant tell you right now) and you also gain more hit and crit, not to mention +4 strength !!!! ... and -1 stamina Boo.

Tankette
03-05-2009, 07:43 AM
I don't think that's accurate. This really is all about the Slayer. It's got more avoidance thus more survivability and being 0.1 faster, it's got far superior threat/dps. I'm all for multiple sets so that you can customize your toon properly given the situation, but ultimately you're safe to vendor the Red Sword in this case. The Slayer is superior.

After a gazillion runs of Naxx this sword finally dropped last night. Unfortunately for me I was healing on my priest alt.:mad: I told one of the Pally tanks to grab it and he did even though he didn't think it was better than his Red Sword of Courage. Of course I was remembering this thread and thinking the Slayer was superior to the Red Sword but now I am wondering if that holds true for Pally tanks as well as Warrior tanks?:confused: