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Garbid
01-29-2009, 10:19 AM
Been arguing about how threat mechanics and hatefuls work on Patch.

What I think is true is:
When he hit's you he adds threat to you.
He picks target by picking higher HP of the two highest threat (excluding the MT).

We were almost in an agreement except for how he adds threat with his hits.

I thought is was minimal so you still need to fight for threat, and it is possible for melee to pass you if you for example are third OT and getting rage starved, and perhaps wearing avoidance so not getting many hits in.

He on the other hand states that when Patchwerk hits 1 tank, he adds threat on all 3.

So if you go for the 2tank strategy, that would mean he'd add threat to some random dps? And if melee are standing in meele range on Patch's first hit on the MT he'd add threat to random two others ? Doesn't make sense to me. Guess I just need a confirmation.

Argamasilla
01-29-2009, 11:12 AM
It has always been my understanding that players "generate" threat.

So the concept of Patch "Giving" threat to a player with an attack seems to go fully against the known game mechanics for threat.

To support the assertion that Patch does not just give threat, I simply point out that DSP can and do out TPS the OT or second OT (10 or 25man) and take get 1 shot by a hateful. If Patch gave out threat the tanks would simply have to get initial aggro and let Patch do all the work of keeping them on top.

So, you are both incorrect as the mechanic of threat does not work that way hence the arguement between how many tanks he gives threat to is moot.

On 10 man, #2 on threat takes the hateful strikes. So the MT gets aggro and stays at #1 while the OT keeps right on his tail in #2. If you are using a mod like Omen you can get a good estimate of your threat position. Also you will see that Ret Pallie sneaking up the threat chart about to overtake the #2, and then see him get 1 shot when he does.

On 25 man, its the top 3 on the chart, with #2 and #3 taking the hatefulls. Since Blizzard Devs aren't complete jerks :) they don't make the hateful random between 2 and 3; but it will always hit someone in the # 2 or 3 position on the threat chart. It is determined by which player has the highest HP at that moment of the strike.

So it is possible to have only 2 tanks on 25 man, as long as the OT is 2nd or even 3rd on the aggro chart, he will take the hatefull if his total HP is greater at the time of the strike. This is why you sometimes hear about players dipping in the goo. There is no AOE or random raid damage from Patch, so other then making healers twitchy seeing orange bars, there isn't any reason for the anyone over #3 on the aggro chart to need full health (if you are melee standing in front of Patch I don't want to know). Do you have to dip in goo? No. In fact unless the OT can take 2 hatefulls in a row without dying, it does no good as the healers should be spamming heals and topping the OT off after each strike. And even if you take 2 and live, again the OT should be topped off before the next strike.

As a note, if the OT does go down, its a wonderfully quick wipe as the hatefulls oneshot eveyone within a few seconds.

Xav
01-29-2009, 11:55 AM
OMG USE THE SEARCH FEATURE.

YOUR ANSWER IS IN THIS THREAD.

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f126/44003-yet-another-25-man-patchwerk-thread.html

On this same page. Hint: Krete