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Ciderhelm
01-28-2009, 05:55 AM
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This movie is available for direct download for Donors. Click here to learn more! (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)


How RNG reliant is this?
Virtually none of this achievement is based on the RNG for a guild that is actively attempting to complete the achievement. This achievement is exponentially more difficult than "Undying," but, with the sole exception of Thaddius, every possible problem can be accounted for by creating redundancies -- including player disconnects. In other words, any player that tell you that this is "based on the RNG" or that it's "easy, the only thing stopping guilds is lag," will likely never get the achievement unless they're carried (or they're making excuses for having bad players in their raids).

Basically, Immortal is to your Healers what 6 Minute Malygos is to your DPS. The largest burden of this achievement rests on healers. However, you also are very unlikely to get this unless your entire raid can be relied on to live.

Once again, to clarify: This is not an RNG dependent achievement. Bad luck will not ruin this for you -- player error or lack of planning will. Keep in mind that only a very short list of guilds have actually completed this, none of them accidentally, and the great majority of these are accomplished guilds with worldwide standing.

(As a side note, anyone who's said that top guilds are only where they are because of time, not skill, this is your chance to prove it!)


Guardian Spirit & Divine Shield w/ Divine Guardian Talents
By far the two most important abilities in a successful Immortal clear are Guardian Spirit (Priests) and Divine Shield w/ Divine Guardian talents. The first is your safeguard against disconnects, and Priests who are on their game can singlehandedly prevent an Immortal failure. The second is a raid-wide Shield Wall, which will virtually guarantee your players cannot be killed during Kel'thuzad Mind Controls. Have these in your raid.


Skilled & Experienced Players
This achievement requires the most player skill of any achievement currently in the game. Unlike 6 minute Malygos or similar achievements, you don't get to wipe on this until you get it right. You only get one chance.

For this reason, you have to be upfront with your raiders. While we were still experiencing heavy lag on our server, we began a policy which helped us refine our roster -- we would not invite players back if they died on a Naxxramas clear and we determined it was their fault. My first concern was 'this could be rough if people start dropping like flies,' but people stayed on their game. We did still have a couple players with problems and it helped to have stated this rule upfront so they understood why they were not on our Immortal run.

We had been working on this achievement for several weeks in advance, knowing we could not do it because we literally could not compensate for Earthen Ring and Garrosh' disconnects on Thaddius and other encounters. Our preparation, however, allowed us to pick it up immediately after 3.0.8 was released and the lag cleared up.


Kel'thuzad
Kel'thuzad is the keystone encounter for this achievement, by far the most difficult encounter. Making it to him without any deaths, even without adjusting raid strategies, is relatively easy -- but pulling him once and not having a single death is not something you want to leave to chance. Impress the importance of this specific encounter to your raiders and why you need to adjust your strategy, because this is where mistakes will be the most likely and the most disheartening.


Notable Strategy Changes
There were several strategies that we changed specifically for this Immortal run, and had practiced in the weeks preceding our clear. Here's a list of what differs from our original 10-man videos:


Razuvious had a backup Feral Druid tank ready to taunt and gain Guardian Spirit in the case of a mind control break;
On Four Horsemen, we took Zeliek about twice as slowly as we needed to and made sure only a small number of players were in range to reduce potential Holy Wrath chains;
on Anub'rekhan, our tank used his 15 second Shield Wall from the 4-piece set bonus while kiting to add extra insurance;
We used Divine Shield through two of the web wraps on Maexxna;
We had two tanks on Noth the Plaguebringer dedicated to picking him up after the blink;
We used flares on Heigan to make it extraordinarily clear where each quarter began and ended;
We had two tanks on Grobbulus slimes and we stayed away from clouds after Grobbulus died;
We had a Feral Druid tank all of the Zombie Chow as they spawned on Gluth instead of kiting;
We had Positives and Negatives fully spread out through the room after Thaddius died to avoid a player death from charges after Thaddius himself died;
We had Guardian Spirit ready if anyone DC'd on Sapphiron and we used both Tranquility and Divine Shield through air phases to top people off;
We cycled Divine Shields through each Mind Control on Kel'thuzad and had two full rings of CC capable classes and cross-healers to cover every quadrant of the room; we also had four tanks building cross-tank aggro on enemies.

duffmanrc
01-28-2009, 06:26 AM
We came so close to the undying achievement last night. We were on Kel, he was less that 15%, I was OTing the Adds and they had 6 stacks of buffs. Then all of a sudden i got hit by a Frost Blast. 3 seconds later i died. So close....

Colon
01-28-2009, 06:40 AM
Gratz Cider. My guild has managed to get Undying on 10 man, but the closest we got to Immortal was 3 wings down and then someone died to Thaddius :/

I've been labeling in peoples officer notes the week in which they blew our Immortal, hoping we couldn't bring them to further runs. Unfortunately, I've only kept track since attempt #7 and now we are up to attempt #12 and it's been a different person each week which would gimp our raid severly.

The worst way we have lost it was on Thad. We had the normal tank toss on the first two mini bosses, a warlock pulled threat on one, proceeded to shatter as simultaneously the tank taunted and our holy pally used his bop target of target macro. So the boss changed targets from the lock, to the warrior who got bopped, then it killed our shadow priest who was now second on threat :/ Just funky ways each week. We're thinking the only way we get it is by claiming we want the under 21 achievement and leaving the "diers" out of the raid.

Naaven
01-28-2009, 06:43 AM
Cider, I'm wondering if this was server first for you guys? Nobody's done it on our server yet.

Naaven
01-28-2009, 06:43 AM
And grats, btw. Very impressive.

nhl
01-28-2009, 06:58 AM
grats on the achevment but it take time and luck or the best of the best to get the imortal achevment but in 25 man raids ppl can die at any time in most casses thaddius is the killer cose of instance sever lage but hoppfully wow will get more than 1 instance sever going soon and it will help no end with but i am talking about blizzard doing somthing smart (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN) sorry getting of the point it is doable and it will be getting done by more guilds soon

Horacio
01-28-2009, 07:06 AM
Congratz! This is an amazing achievement and something to be proud of. Thanks for sharing it with the community.

Gertiploiss
01-28-2009, 07:52 AM
grats on the achievment, but you mention that most any guild can do it. You are wrong sorry. This is near impossibly hard. Also, wouldn't having a tank on Zombie chow be more dangerous than kiting because of the debuff?

Edgar
01-28-2009, 08:31 AM
I like the new intro.

Inaara
01-28-2009, 08:40 AM
Grats Cider! While "Ciderhelm the Immortal" is cool, I think "Ciderhelm the Marmot" would be more... awesome...

gaiylo
01-28-2009, 08:45 AM
When you're allready trying for Immortal i think you also have a decent gear
to burn Gluth down with 1 Decimate, so the Debuff wouldn't stack too high,
but we did it with a normal strategy aswell.
At least, this is normal for us :P
2 Mages
2 Hunters
1 Resto Shaman putting up Earthbind + 1 additional healer in the back
1 Prot Warrior with Piercing Howl helping out

I would say it is possible for everyone, the problem is that most (I dare say the word because it's easy) "casuals" don't engage encounters like this, they
seem to not think really much about the encounters or anything while raiding.
For example I know a tank who downed all bosses on normal heroic mode
but his Number 1 damage ability is melee swings. He doesn't think. That would
be my point. :P

ps. Oh and grats Cider ^^

Lore
01-28-2009, 08:56 AM
Hey guys I'm Ciderhelm look how awesome I am! I HATE YOU CIDERHELM

North
01-28-2009, 09:23 AM
Reading some of the comments I want to emphasize:

Guild Morale > Achievement.

In some cases there may be repeat offenders due to hardware problems, latency etc. which should be addressed generally and not only for this achievement. You may get farther having people reconfigure their UI instead of keeping them out of raid.

I find it dangerous to point fingers as a tank because we are built and raised to survive and are the focus of healing.

-- North

Lilie
01-28-2009, 09:38 AM
Just to speak to North's comment...

As a member of Eventide, I can say that these kinds of strict qualifiers that remove people from achievement runs like this one, are made with impartial objectivity. It is known much in advance that if you show a pattern of xyz you will not be invited on an achievement run like "The Immortal." It is nothing personal. We definately don't babysit raiders. If changing your UI will fix the problem concerning your repeated deaths then, by all means, we encourage you to fix the issue.

Setting boundaries like these in order to achieve goals does not in anyway inhibit morale. In fact, we find it's quite the opposite.

Vissara
01-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Very impressive and congrats!

Shadevarr
01-28-2009, 10:12 AM
grats on the achievment, but you mention that most any guild can do it. You are wrong sorry. This is near impossibly hard. Also, wouldn't having a tank on Zombie chow be more dangerous than kiting because of the debuff?

Our kite team consists of prot warr, surv hunter, resto shammy, mage and a holy pally and we have absolutely no issues. I go in with 58% avoidance and usually end the fight with about 60 stacks. charge, intervene, intercept and wonderful for picking them up and avoiding the huge pack and shockwave is a no brainer.

Lore
01-28-2009, 10:17 AM
grats on the achievment, but you mention that most any guild can do it. You are wrong sorry. This is near impossibly hard. Also, wouldn't having a tank on Zombie chow be more dangerous than kiting because of the debuff?

Every encounter can be done with 0 deaths very easily. I would be very surprised if there were any guilds that have been clearing 25-man Naxx for more than a month or so that haven't, at some point, killed each boss with 0 deaths. The only "hard" part is doing them all in one run.

Ciderhelm
01-28-2009, 10:24 AM
To clarify Gluth -- the debuff stops stacking at 99. It does deal a decent amount of damage but, with a dedicated healer, it's very stable to just tank them in the back. I'll have a video up for it when possible (for the 10-man version; I haven't had a chance to tank this on 25).

Man▀earpig
01-28-2009, 10:30 AM
Cider i can run fraps one day that I am tanking them unless you just really want to.

Alent
01-28-2009, 10:34 AM
To clarify Gluth -- the debuff stops stacking at 99. It does deal a decent amount of damage but, with a dedicated healer, it's very stable to just tank them in the back. I'll have a video up for it when possible (for the 10-man version; I haven't had a chance to tank this on 25).

It's fundamentally the same on 25, just you need two tanks, one for each grate.

Man▀earpig
01-28-2009, 10:37 AM
30 yd taunt imo. heh

North
01-28-2009, 10:38 AM
Definitely valid points Lilie. Your guild demographic sounds broad, from Cider's voiceover, so it was necessary to set an objective standard for admission to those raids. If the guild can adapt to these new rules, that is great.

For smaller raiding guilds that have been around awhile, this level of expectation is new and may produce a "roster adjustment". Folks need to decide if it is worth that cost.

Lore
01-28-2009, 10:42 AM
Definitely valid points Lilie. Your guild demographic sounds broad, from Cider's voiceover, so it was necessary to set an objective standard for admission to those raids. If the guild can adapt to these new rules, that is great.

For smaller raiding guilds that have been around awhile, this level of expectation is new and may produce a "roster adjustment". Folks need to decide if it is worth that cost.

Well, the other option is to just have those people get better :P

I think Cider's comments were mostly pointing towards the fact that, since all of the encounters can be done with no deaths even early on, this is more of a skill achievement than a "have you been farming Naxx for 3 months" achievement.

Inaara
01-28-2009, 10:48 AM
If players cannot perform to expectations I don't see any reason to hold the rest of the guild back. Although it may seem like a kick in the nuts to the person that is left out, I feel that in the long run that the player who is not included will try harder to be better and pay more attention.

Galushi
01-28-2009, 10:48 AM
This movie reminds me of the fact that cider is a chick now.

Bluedot
01-28-2009, 12:43 PM
Gratz guys, wish I did'nt have to work late that night >.<

Xav
01-28-2009, 12:53 PM
To clarify Gluth -- the debuff stops stacking at 99. It does deal a decent amount of damage but, with a dedicated healer, it's very stable to just tank them in the back. I'll have a video up for it when possible (for the 10-man version; I haven't had a chance to tank this on 25).

In my full block set where I cover the hit table, I could tank those all day at a 99 stack! It's beautiful and so simple.

Lilie
01-28-2009, 01:09 PM
In my full block set where I cover the hit table, I could tank those all day at a 99 stack! It's beautiful and so simple.

Nice, Xav. Yea, its much easier for us to throw our bearpig-tank at it, give him a healer and call it a day.

Ciderhelm
01-28-2009, 04:31 PM
In my full block set where I cover the hit table, I could tank those all day at a 99 stack! It's beautiful and so simple.
You make me so jealous. :(

Ciderhelm
01-28-2009, 04:43 PM
I've updated this with the final version. I'll be editing more in briefly. :)

Gertiploiss
01-28-2009, 06:17 PM
In my full block set where I cover the hit table, I could tank those all day at a 99 stack! It's beautiful and so simple.
I tried it today, i guess I'm not geared enough

Armageddn
01-29-2009, 01:59 AM
I think the most common this you will hear when talking about this achievement is "we almost had it..." and then there is a BUT... <insert teh but> like someone lagged out on thaddius, i couldn't see the poison, the iceblock was bugged on saphiron..etc

Grats on the immortal and very nice movie with helpful tips as always Cider =)

Belak
01-29-2009, 04:39 AM
In my full block set where I cover the hit table, I could tank those all day at a 99 stack! It's beautiful and so simple.

Xav:

a) Any chance of a chardev.org list of that block set?

b) Did I misread the infected wound ability? I thought at 99 stacks, you'd be taking +9900 damage for every hit, and several of them beating on you at once. How do you block through that?

Ezimodnar
01-29-2009, 04:51 AM
I wish my guild had raiders who didn't have extreme tunnel vision and were capable of listening to simple instructions.

We were doing the 10 man one and I specifically say run behind grobbulus when you get infection as I am leaving plenty of space. Person runs all the way over to the other side of the room and dies. No other deaths during the run.

@%$$

Wao
01-29-2009, 05:06 AM
It's fundamentally the same on 25, just you need two tanks, one for each grate.

I solo tank all the zombies on Gluth as a prot warrior.

Bokeh
01-29-2009, 05:07 AM
It's fundamentally the same on 25, just you need two tanks, one for each grate.

We usually run with 3 or 4 tanks, have 1 of the tanks go dps and you can solo tank all zombies.

The trick is

Mark yourself up, have all healers stand on top of eachother directly inbetween gluth and the middle grate. Now, if you vigilance the maintank about 10s after the pull, you'll have free taunts coming out of your orifices.

Before a single zombie chow can do anything you can taunt them, keep them in a tight pack and just tank them. Then, 10s before the decimate goes off, backpeddle them to the back grate and as soon as they decimate shockwave them.

The advantages to thise is that you have more dps, healing is much much easier, you don't lose anyone to kiting and you can aoe them down much easier because 1 tank on the zombie chow means that they're all in a tight pack (they die in 3-4 gcd for us)


Xav:

a) Any chance of a chardev.org list of that block set?

b) Did I misread the infected wound ability? I thought at 99 stacks, you'd be taking +9900 damage for every hit, and several of them beating on you at once. How do you block through that?

I usually tank them in a full block set as well (mine sucks atm because i've been passing on block gear to holy pala's, only 1500 BV unbuffed), and i think there's something weird with the way infected wounds stacks. Even with a 99 stack up, i still see full blocks half the time.

Keep in mind, that +9900 damage is pre-armour mitigation, plus, what i think what happens is that block might be applied before before the infected wounds, so if you get a full block you won't get any damage. But this is just all guesswork. All i can say is that i've only seem them hit me for 2.5-3k every now and then, it only gets iffy when 15 of them all hit you at the same time.

Diffy
01-29-2009, 07:43 AM
What is the add-on that shows him when sword and board procs?

Edgar
01-29-2009, 07:45 AM
Mik's Scrolling Battle Text

Diffy
01-29-2009, 07:52 AM
Thank you Edge, this will help my warrior and my mage. I never know when S&B procs nor when Brain freeze/ fingers of frost do either.

Darksend
01-29-2009, 08:18 AM
what you said about grob, is that 100% confirmed?

as in did you have a week were the only death on any fight was someone dieing in a poison cloud and you not get the achievement?

we had someone die to the adds about 20 seconds after the boss died, did that cost us the title? we had a dc on saph so it there is no way of knowing but i would really like to know one way or the other with 100% certainty not just speculation


again what you said about thad, how do you know unless the only death was to a charge the whole run. The difference between grob and thad is that the poison clouds keep you in combat, on thad you get out of combat as soon as the boss dies.

it is my belief that as long as you are out of combat, the charge would not count against the achievement and the only reason grob counts is because you are still in combat.

Naaven
01-29-2009, 08:51 AM
Thank you Edge, this will help my warrior and my mage. I never know when S&B procs nor when Brain freeze/ fingers of frost do either.
I use Power Auras for this. Power Auras is also good for keeping track of buffs and whatnot.

Xav
01-29-2009, 10:06 AM
Xav:

a) Any chance of a chardev.org list of that block set?

b) Did I misread the infected wound ability? I thought at 99 stacks, you'd be taking +9900 damage for every hit, and several of them beating on you at once. How do you block through that?

chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (http://www.chardev.org/?template=125976)

About 90% coverage from gear + 5% from mob base miss, rest is covered by raid buffs. (typically you can't get 102.4% unless you had like insect swarm/scorpid up on the mob, so anything without those up you're close to capped)

At 97~% coverage you're still blocking just about everything!

And the +9900 is added to their base swing, which means it still has to go through armor, then finally block value. Block is calculated at the very end of all attacks, even after shield wall :)

Xav
01-29-2009, 10:32 AM
If base zombie damage is 1500, and you have +9900, that brings the base zombie damage to 11400

If you have 63% armor mitigation raid buffed, you're taking 37% damage.

11400 * .37 = 4218

Defensive stance, 4218 * .9 = 3796 damage.

If you have 1671 block value with raid buffs, you'll have 10% more with glyph of blocking (tbh I don't know how it interacts, i'll just say it's 10% more for this) = 1838 block value.

So you'll take a maximum of 3796 - 1838 = 1958 damage. This also isn't even counting Demo Shout, but I'm not sure how demo shout will interact with base mob damage and then debuffs added to that. It will probably only alter the base, in which case demo will do next to nothing.

Ciderhelm
01-29-2009, 12:41 PM
what you said about grob, is that 100% confirmed?

as in did you have a week were the only death on any fight was someone dieing in a poison cloud and you not get the achievement?

we had someone die to the adds about 20 seconds after the boss died, did that cost us the title? we had a dc on saph so it there is no way of knowing but i would really like to know one way or the other with 100% certainty not just speculation


again what you said about thad, how do you know unless the only death was to a charge the whole run. The difference between grob and thad is that the poison clouds keep you in combat, on thad you get out of combat as soon as the boss dies.

it is my belief that as long as you are out of combat, the charge would not count against the achievement and the only reason grob counts is because you are still in combat.
Is it 100% confirmed? Nope. It's based off pre-3.0.8 reports from a handful of guilds dealing with Undying.

Do you want to risk it?

Darksend
01-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Is it 100% confirmed? Nope. It's based off pre-3.0.8 reports from a handful of guilds dealing with Undying.

Do you want to risk it?


nah i was asking more out of curiosity because we were having a huge debate/turned into a bet on if that person that died to a slime after grob died cost us the title.

we litterally talked about it the entire rest of the night except on boss pulls and i was hoping you had 100% confirmation so i coulda won the bet lol

either way HUGE GRATS!!!!!!!!!

Nebuchadneza
01-29-2009, 07:13 PM
Grats Cider,

9 people in our guild got the Undying tag a couple of weeks back. The 10th person DC'd halfway through Kel and reconnected just after we got him down. Unfortunately he missed the title (but was able to loot badges from the boss) and contacting a GM didn't resolve it for him. :(

Seph
01-29-2009, 09:58 PM
Gratz on the Achievement Cider! I'll try it myself someday as soon as I find a good guild =x

I solo tank the Zombies of Gluth in Naxx25 too... because tanking the boss is SO boring.
On 10man tanking the adds is less than trivial: you stand still, hit the zombie, do your tanky stuff, wait for the next one and so it goes...

Belak
01-30-2009, 04:54 AM
chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (http://www.chardev.org/?template=125976)

About 90% coverage from gear + 5% from mob base miss, rest is covered by raid buffs. (typically you can't get 102.4% unless you had like insect swarm/scorpid up on the mob, so anything without those up you're close to capped)

At 97~% coverage you're still blocking just about everything!

And the +9900 is added to their base swing, which means it still has to go through armor, then finally block value. Block is calculated at the very end of all attacks, even after shield wall :)

Thanks Xav! That's a big help. Plus it's a fun set to aim for. I always loved doing "Stupid Tank Tricks" with full block sets. It annoyed my feral friends, which is always a worthwhile goal. ;)

Criminalmind<eu-eonar>
01-30-2009, 07:06 AM
Gratz dude,

but i disagree with the Instructor boss. With some descent priests, u won't loose any people. I did instructor about 2 times, and both times no deaths. Another fact is, that the 4 wings are easy compared to naxx[10]. You only need players that understand their classes, know all tactics. especially the last. sapphiron and kel'thuzad are 2 hard bosses. And i admire youre guilds prestation about it. (thumbs up)

Pirika
01-30-2009, 10:54 AM
It seems that all video on youtube have been removed? or its only me telling the video is no longer available?

Gratz to Cinderhelm The Immortal ;) and all your guild members!

Jash
01-30-2009, 01:37 PM
Gratz dude,

but i disagree with the Instructor boss. With some descent priests, u won't loose any people. I did instructor about 2 times, and both times no deaths. Another fact is, that the 4 wings are easy compared to naxx[10]. You only need players that understand their classes, know all tactics. especially the last. sapphiron and kel'thuzad are 2 hard bosses. And i admire youre guilds prestation about it. (thumbs up)

We also did Undying about 2 weeks before Immortal

Ciderhelm
01-30-2009, 03:37 PM
Gratz dude,

but i disagree with the Instructor boss. With some descent priests, u won't loose any people. I did instructor about 2 times, and both times no deaths. Another fact is, that the 4 wings are easy compared to naxx[10]. You only need players that understand their classes, know all tactics. especially the last. sapphiron and kel'thuzad are 2 hard bosses. And i admire youre guilds prestation about it. (thumbs up)
Every guild may have different hot spots. Razuvious hadn't been a problem for a month, but we still played it safe, because we did have a player die 3 weeks ago. Adjust strats and start point by where your guild has specific issues. :)

Per 10 to 25-man, part of what makes 25-mans easier than 10-mans is that a player can die and the raid can make up for it whereas that's much harder in a 10-man setting. However, when encounters are held to the standard of "nobody can die," 25-mans become exponentially more difficult even without factoring encounter changes such as mind control on kel'thuzad. This is a mathematical truth, backed up by where the achievements are relative to each other; Immortal is the rarest achievement right now, with fewer than 100 guilds worldwide having completed it, whereas Undying has been completed many thousands of times over.

serge
01-31-2009, 08:10 AM
Haha did you make a sex change? I've seen a male human warrior on some other guides.

Criminalmind<eu-eonar>
01-31-2009, 09:32 AM
Every guild may have different hot spots. Razuvious hadn't been a problem for a month, but we still played it safe, because we did have a player die 3 weeks ago. Adjust strats and start point by where your guild has specific issues. :)

Per 10 to 25-man, part of what makes 25-mans easier than 10-mans is that a player can die and the raid can make up for it whereas that's much harder in a 10-man setting. However, when encounters are held to the standard of "nobody can die," 25-mans become exponentially more difficult even without factoring encounter changes such as mind control on kel'thuzad. This is a mathematical truth, backed up by where the achievements are relative to each other; Immortal is the rarest achievement right now, with fewer than 100 guilds worldwide having completed it, whereas Undying has been completed many thousands of times over.

it is still a nice prestation, because it is hard to let no one die in one run. especially 25 people. And youre right about the hotspots, were wiping on Heroic Thadius that is still a son of a :cool:

Wao
02-01-2009, 01:41 PM
Thank you Edge, this will help my warrior and my mage. I never know when S&B procs nor when Brain freeze/ fingers of frost do either.

You could try Power Auras Classic as well. For those of us who need a giant icon over our face to know when somethings of CD or missing or procced.

[Edit: Damn, Naaven beat me to it alreadu]

CrimsonTemplar
02-03-2009, 08:50 AM
Any chance you could post that Holy Paladin talent spec you mentioned in the video?

Thanks.

Pretiorc
02-03-2009, 10:23 PM
chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (http://www.chardev.org/?template=125976)



Thanks for this, was looking into building a block set and it will save me a lot of time. Much appreciated link!

rmd83
02-06-2009, 08:21 AM
grats on getting the title cider, the guild i'm in isn't hardcore in the least bit and i'd say for us this achievement would be impossible atm since we don't like to rush things and all the bio breaks, r/l crap, ect... if we ever try for it we're going to have to set a date on a saturday or sunday and start it early in the day. Oh btw does it have to be the same group you go in with or can you swap people out who are better at certain bosses

Ray
02-06-2009, 10:45 AM
grats on getting the title cider, the guild i'm in isn't hardcore in the least bit and i'd say for us this achievement would be impossible atm since we don't like to rush things and all the bio breaks, r/l crap, ect... if we ever try for it we're going to have to set a date on a saturday or sunday and start it early in the day. Oh btw does it have to be the same group you go in with or can you swap people out who are better at certain bosses

You can get the immortals title if you swap people, but its only the people present on the KT kill that get the achievement. So really, unless you want to cuz tons of drama, I would just go in with one good group.

And this is totally doable by any guild as Cider said, you just need to be dedicated to geting it done.

Ciderhelm
02-08-2009, 04:34 PM
I've added more detailed notes in.

Senti
02-13-2009, 06:52 PM
Still can't get together 10 people who can avoid flame walls (quite possibly the simplest thing to do in any raid I've ever done) so 25 people to clear naxx without dying is out of my reach. Which is fine really, despite being my guild's achievement junkie this is something that I don't really have an interest in; way way too much effort required.

Anyways grats on the achievement.

Dhalphir
02-14-2009, 06:45 PM
We picked up Undying on Saturday night in a semi alt-pug run.

Kind of depressing, considering I tried for four weeks in a row to get it on my main, and then on an alt run, we got to Spider Wing (did it last) and realised no one had died yet.

Mannaroth
02-21-2009, 05:00 PM
We've had a couple of situations in which on Patchwerk he has randomly killed a melee DPS mid fight. Is his hateful strike actually based on threat, or is it based on health? (Should the melee run into the slime to reduce their health?)

Dhalphir
02-21-2009, 10:13 PM
Threat.

On 10man, its top two threat. Stay below the two tanks, you're fine. If you're above the second tank, you're dead.

on 25man, its top three threat, stay below the top three, you're fine. If you're above 3, you have a chance of taking a hateful.


If anyone tries to tell you otherwise, and tries to tell your melee DPS to jump into the slime, you can call them retarded with full confidence.

Kadaan
02-27-2009, 09:27 AM
Tuesday night we had what I believe is just bad RNG luck on Kel.

Void zone on melee, as they were moving out KT did his MC. One of the rogues was MC'd. He instantly blinded another melee, who took a few steps right back into the void zone and died.

The only thing I can think of that would have been reasonably possible was for a holy priest with insanely fast reactions to GS the melee, but there's only a 1-2 second window there to notice what happened and get it off.

Ghandi1515
03-01-2009, 01:43 PM
What would you do with the Guadians of Icecrown adds??? Tank or Kite???

Mannaroth
03-04-2009, 06:21 PM
First major attempt at the immortal - got to Sapphiron with no deaths and then our main tank was too far away from the ice block to make it...

We then did KT without a single death.

Typical, no? >_<

DraeniMaster
04-03-2009, 04:47 AM
Im sure you have answered this a million times but i was wondering what add ons you use?