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View Full Version : Run all 5-Man Heroics before any 10-Man Raids?



drofnas
01-27-2009, 11:50 AM
I was wondering if its recommended to have completed all 5-man heroics before attempting any of the 10-Man raids available. Such as Naxx, Mag, Sarth, etc...

Or would blues mixed with Emblem of Heroism gear be good enough for Naxx (or others)?

Here's my DK Tank, if you want to see what sort of random stupid I have right now.

WoW Armory: Drekonius (Akama)

Sometimes I will have on DPS/PvP gear, so hopefully you are reading this while I'm in my tank gear.

kolben
01-27-2009, 12:25 PM
I think your guild should set a goal to complete every instance in heroic, and set out to get every pre-Naxx upgrade available. When you are well on your way to completing those goals go ahead and go into Naxx-10. No reason to wait until you are geared to the teeth, but if most of your gear could be upgraded in a heroic or with badges still you may want to get it out of the way.

If you are going to be tanking, the old rules haven't changed. The better your gear is heading into new content, the easier it will be to start getting things down.

Vaevictis
01-27-2009, 12:32 PM
If you have the right 10 people than there is no reason that you sould wait prior to going into Naxx 10 man. 10 Man Naxx isnt any more difficult than the average heroic. You may not knock the place right out but as long as you follow the strats there is no reason you cant be successful in there.

Gysh
01-27-2009, 01:14 PM
If you have the right 10 people than there is no reason that you sould wait prior to going into Naxx 10 man. 10 Man Naxx isnt any more difficult than the average heroic. You may not knock the place right out but as long as you follow the strats there is no reason you cant be successful in there.


This.

You are going to have to learn the fights anyway, so the sooner you start the faster you will learn them. Videos are great but like everything else until you do it you won't fully understand the fight.

drofnas
01-27-2009, 02:12 PM
Is there any quick test prior to Naxx to see if the people in my guild are geared enough. Such as using Heroic Loken (HoL) as a test to make sure our gear is good enough, by healing thru his Nova's.

Right now my guild has only completed the following heroics:
Utgarde Keep
Nexus
Drak'Thoran
Old Kingdom (just the 2 boss timed run)
CoS

And we have only been able to take down all but the last bosses of Nerub and HoL. We've gotten a bunch more gear since we last ran those, so we may try them again shortly.

We are trying to learn all of the fights a bit better on normal, before we try and attempt on Heroic.

Gysh
01-27-2009, 03:55 PM
Just make sure your tanks are uncrittable and start with spider wing. If that goes fine move on, if not get some more gear.

orcstar
01-27-2009, 03:58 PM
Do heroics AND nax. Don't let people who haven't done heroics at all in greens and stuff piggyback on the ones that got their crafted gear and did their heroics.

Blackheathen
01-27-2009, 04:21 PM
for Naxx, tactics>>>Gear (except maybe patchwerk lol). What is the worst thing that can happen? You get in there, you wipe a bunch of times but you will still have learnt a hell of a lot more than if you didn't go at all. Such a great thing to get your guild together and raiding too, even if you do get pwned.

Having everyone watch Ciderhelms movies will probably be more productive than grinding heroics

Just go

Blackheathen
01-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Thats great that you guys are running normal modes first. We did everything normal at least once on the way to 80. Sure makes leveling a little more fun and makes the step into heroics that much easier. With all the talk on how everything in Northrend is just a faceroll plenty of people think they can just ding 80 in quest reward greens and start collecting epics from raids/heroics. Unless you are exceptionally skilled or have very helpfull guildies prepared to drag you through that is just not going to happen.

In terms of progression. Just go with Ciderhelms guide. VoA then Sarth then Spider wing.

Pellet
01-29-2009, 07:51 AM
"Is there any quick test prior to Naxx to see if the people in my guild are geared enough. Such as using Heroic Loken (HoL) as a test to make sure our gear is good enough, by healing thru his Nova's."

I would agree that Loken is a good test for entry to Naxx, however prehaps you should change your approach. Since tactics are much more important than gear, perhaps you should try the "running" technique to avoid the novas. This is a good co-ordination exercise, plus Loken has a chance to drop one of the best Pre-raid 2H wepons.

You also said in your post that you havent done all the heroics. In my opinion this really dosent matter, if you can clear the "easy" ones, then Anub'rekan shouldn't be much of a problem. As long as your tanks are uncritable.

A quick test on gear particularly for DPS is use the training dummies in OGR or IF, and use a DPS mode like recount... as long as they are kicking out 1.8k+ then theres no reason not to raid

the main problem my current guild are having is, that our dps has the gear, just none of them decide to move from Sapphirons blizzards. Ergo the inevitable wipe.

drofnas
02-03-2009, 09:50 AM
Thanks for the replies on this. Since my original post my guild has teamed up with another guild on Akama that has a good amount of healers/DPS. So now we've been able to clear all of the Heroics, I've tanked a good majority of them so far, and we have even start doing 10-Man Sarth.

We are going to be trying 10-Man Sarth (again) and Vaults tonight which should go pretty well. Then I think we are gonna start trying 10-Man Naxx and learning all of the encounters in there.

With all of the new gear I've gotten, Tank and DPS wise, I'm able to be very nimble in groups as well. I can go into a Heroic as DPS, and then switch to full tanking gear as a "OH SHIT" button for any of the tougher bosses in case the tank dies, this makes majority of the encounters in Heroics easy sauce.

macfeagle
02-04-2009, 11:36 AM
It's important to gear to a level such that you are not embarrassed and can do your job without being a drain on your group. You can attain this level of gearing without doing all the heroics.

What helps in Naxx is having people who show up every week, play well, and are trying to improve themselves out of raid as well as in raid.

Unless you think that failure to clear Naxx will cause a morale problem or something, consider going immediately. It's not that hard to clear a couple wings.

Pellet
02-09-2009, 01:34 AM
Whilst i agree with macfeagle, that you can enter naxx without heroic gear, it all depends on the rest of your guild. If your gear is slightly less than average for the instance your guild/raid needs amazing co-ordination to make up for it.

The gear from heroics often acts as a buffer for some of those players - and i hate to say it - that may be kids or just plain retards. That being said, heroics often act as a filter for players who cannot deal a certain amount of damage, or who have no idea of their class.

Failure to clear naxx. would usually not be a morale problem unless, some of your group are massivly overgeared, and are failing because of weaker/undergeared players - which can often create hostility.

You said you are doing sathrion 10, try it with a drake up, and if you succeed there you should have no problem in naxx till you reach frostwyrm lair.

Naros
02-10-2009, 09:58 AM
And we have only been able to take down all but the last bosses of Nerub and HoL. We've gotten a bunch more gear since we last ran those, so we may try them again shortly.

The key with Azjol'nerub's last boss is to avoid the pound. I've seen many tanks simply stand in it because it was not interpretable, in fact I used to do the same until we did it heroic and I was amazed at the damage the pound does.

Key is to tank him in the back of the platform, facing the exit. Make sure that no one gets in front of him and when you see him cast Pound, strafe either left or right but you want to get out of his frontal area. If you get far enough away, he won't cast Pound because no one is in melee range who has aggro, then he'll turn and continue attacking you. Again just have your melee watch out in case he turns in their direction when he moves toward you to avoid his cleave.

As others have mentioned; Tactics are far more important in Naxx than gear. As long as your raid members meet minimum requirements for such things as uncrittable, adequate mana regen for longer fights, and folks with good +hit to avoid misses and low DPS, then you'll be just fine.

I've taken my Warrior into Naxx who had only completed quests in Borean Tundra, Dragonblight, and Fjord but had completed all regular mode 80 dungeons and several heroics and did just fine. His health pool was low (29k raid buffed), he is a tad squishy as a tank (lacks avoidance but had 24k armor buffed) but with a good group, you can accomplish a lot if folks know what to expect and such.

Good luck.

IceHaus151
02-10-2009, 10:23 AM
I think badge gear, and heroic gear are easy ways to get geared for Naxx.. Sure you can go to Naxx in almost full 80 blue set and be successful, but getting a few epics and heroism gear makes Naxx easier. As stated before, strat is key in Naxx, but if you dont have the players that are great at being able to do more than spam buttons for DPS, or let healbot do a lot of the work for you, the gear acts as a nice bridge to allow more room for error. Again, I will refer to Heigan. I have no idea why people have so many problems on this fight. Sure, the first few times I died during the dance, but now I dont even get hit except maybe once or twice due to lag ( I swear my toon is in the safe zone when the lava erupts!!). Last time we downed Heigan it was the same story.. 1 tank, 1 healer, 2-3 DPS survive. Makes the fight longer than it should be, but still gets the job done. So if you have people that dont learn quickly or arent real good, Id say get the heroic epics and heroism gear before you go to help overcome not knowing the strat in an out.

AxLxExX
02-10-2009, 10:26 AM
I don't think it's required to complete them all, if you're just trying to gear yourself. I just did the heroics that I needed, all of which had some sort of upgrade for me. I went into naxx10 for the first time when I didn't even have all my heroic upgrades.

it's more skill > gear IMO