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View Full Version : DK threat issues is Stoneskin Gargoyle the problem



sawzz
01-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Like Allot of DK's I have been experiencing threat issue since the patch hit. I switch to the Stoneskin Gargoyle rune after the patch instead of Fallen crusader rune. I may be wrong about this but is the new rune the porblem?? Unbuffed with only horn of winter on I have about 1100 strength. That makes each fallen crusader proc gives me 300+ strength. Raid buffed this number will only get better and it also scales with gear. A flat 25 defense is just not worth the loss of attack power from strength IMO.

Smaken
01-25-2009, 01:17 PM
An added 25 defense leaves a lot of room on gear for threat stats.

Fallen Crusader is a proc.

Perhaps the trick is that we need to use some of the defense we save and trade it in for more threat oriented stats. DK's don't need 475 def.

sawzz
01-25-2009, 01:28 PM
Short of changing out gear for pure damage gear I dont know how you can regem or enchant to replace the amount of strength loss. I mean 300 or more strength is not easy to replace.

As far as fallen crusader proc. It last 15sec each proc and in my expereince its up all the time.

You are giving away a ton by switching to the new rune. And i dont see a good way to replace it.

dotJEM
01-25-2009, 01:46 PM
I Changed from "Rune of Swordshattering" to SG, and i feel strugeling as well opposed to before where 4-5K TPS never was an issue, and 7K+ was topable if i pulled my self together...now i feel like i have lost 2K tps now more or less...

Yet... i hold aggro just fine.. however feel it's even harder to compete with other tanks that before... I Havent put to much into it yet though... need to update surtain stuff ect before i complain to much...

(Im Unholy btw)

Basridire
01-25-2009, 01:53 PM
I had the 4% parry rune before the patch, and after the patch hit I re-gemmed for more stamina and the next day went blood from frost. I personally have the highest survivability and TPS I have ever had, EVER.

I'm on average at about 7-8k tps. I have so much threat in face that I damn near pull off my MT on every boss fight unless I switch to blood pres. When I was frost and had another rune on I spiked from 2k to 8k on all fights, but now I cant go below 4k if I tried.

sylense
01-25-2009, 07:38 PM
As with all enchants, you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

If you need the +def, go with Stoneskin Gargoyle.
If you need higher threat, go with Unholy Crusader.
If you need avoidance, go with Swordshattering.

Blueduck3285
01-25-2009, 07:42 PM
I use Stoneskin and have had no issues with threat. I reach about 3k AP self buffed. Even when I was frost, I didnt seem to have any issues at all with threat unless it was an AoE group. Back when I was first starting out, I noticed my threat issue was my rotation. I would suggest taking a look at your rotation.

I never used the Crusader enchant while tanking, only Swordshattering or Stoneskin.

Aurelia
01-26-2009, 04:56 AM
Im using stoneskin too, and my threat has been more than doubled since the patch hit. In Naxx-25 today, i was the number 4 tank, and any time i was in frost and beating on a mob that another tank had, i had to be careful not to pull the mob off them because i was seriously outthreating both paladins and the warrior.

With stoneskin you can drop defense and stack more strength and avoidance, and for single targets obliterate should be your main attack. For trash, you'll want to start with dnd and cycle through your diseases, pestilence, blood boil and howling blast, and with all the killing machine procs you should be getting, a fair few of your frost strikes and howling blasts should crit, which means some serious threat =)

Satorri
01-26-2009, 07:50 AM
One thing to bear in mind, and barring glyphs this is the only explanation, Rune of SG trades 4% parry for about 1% dodge, 1% parry, 1% miss, and some health.

This may seem like a fairly even trade, but you're cutting the Rune's chance to help proc RS in half, only dodge/parry will trigger it. RS is, now more than ever, a major threat buff in rotation. The more you use it the higher your threat will fly. Don't underestimate the value of stacking dodge/parry (strength/agility are great for both) for that very reason.

dotJEM
01-26-2009, 02:31 PM
One thing to bear in mind, and barring glyphs this is the only explanation, Rune of SG trades 4% parry for about 1% dodge, 1% parry, 1% miss, and some health.

This may seem like a fairly even trade, but you're cutting the Rune's chance to help proc RS in half, only dodge/parry will trigger it. RS is, now more than ever, a major threat buff in rotation. The more you use it the higher your threat will fly. Don't underestimate the value of stacking dodge/parry (strength/agility are great for both) for that very reason.

Well... can't quite get that to explain this since ive gonne a few upgrades bringing my total dodge+parry above what i had before with SS rune

The 2 signifigant changes that can have nerfed anything for me is:
- Lowering my parry by aprox 2%
- Lowering my hit rating with 54

In replacement ive gained:
- 4% more dodge
- 9 Expertise (78 rating o.O)
- 4% Crit Chance
- 17 extra DPS on weapon (same speed)

(Titanstell mace traded in for Inevitable Defeat, and genneral upgrades).

And RS is pritty much up for every swing anyways with 65%. (as was it before)... theres ofcourse always strings

So im having a hard time seing that RS procs is the issue for me... And even though 2% loss is technically a threat loss due to "haste" loss... ive gained in so many other areas...

Im quite shure the loss in hit would have a larger impact since im Unholy, and alot of what i put out is magic where expertise doesn't really matter. Sadly ive already sharted my old mace so can't check that out :S...

Will try SS again in the near future, and then maybe work on capping Hit+Exp instead.

Satorri
01-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Yeah, you shouldn't be seeing threat drop offs, unless there is something glitchy going on.

Inevitable Defeat is magic death on a stick.

Post back if this keeps up, maybe someone will have some corroboration that will help us pinpoint a glitch.

dotJEM
02-04-2009, 01:42 AM
Yeah, you shouldn't be seeing threat drop offs, unless there is something glitchy going on.

Inevitable Defeat is magic death on a stick.

Post back if this keeps up, maybe someone will have some corroboration that will help us pinpoint a glitch.

The later runs I have had, haven't seemed to be as big an issue as those just after the patch, if there has been anything at all, it is by now sadly hard to evaluate since my gear also has gotten a further bump up...

Also another patch has rolled out since, not that it stated any significant changes to our class.

With these things in mind I have also re-specced a bit away the strong AoE tanking mindset I was running with before to a slightly less AoE and more Single-Target mindset.

So instead of looking back I will now look forward. For now I am back and peaking at the same numbers 7k+ if I pull my self together, as I did in my somewhat worse quality gear before 3.0.8 ...

Lag these days surtainly don't make things easier to measure though

Satorri
02-04-2009, 06:52 AM
Last night I saw some threat figures I hadn't yet, I had a couple fights where my threat spiked over 12k, and I don't know why. I'm really trying to figure it out though, since if I can do that on demand it would be amazing. The best I can figure was just a ScS crit, RS crit stacked up, which wouldn't be reproduceable without luck. It happened a couple times though which makes me wonder.