View Full Version : Sarth3D MTing post patch - need advice.

01-23-2009, 09:14 AM
I'm rather worried about our next attempts on Sarth & Co. on Monday. Usually I'm the MT on Sarth, and run with a standard Sarth3D Unholy spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0gZhg0zZfgGc00oge0Rcout) . Ignoring other issues in the raid, my main problem was dieing to Twilight Torment buffed Flame Breaths when the dance didn't work or I ran out of cooldowns. This was getting better though, as I had started calling for a Guardian Spirit or Hand of Sacrifice over Vent and would hopefully get one in time for the next potential Flame Breath (but not always, and I'd go splat).

Since the patch though, the main time where I die - the Twilight Torment dance - is even worse. Twilight Torment is impossible to remove now by doing an attack dance, Bone Shield and Icebound Fortitude have been nerfed, and I'll basically be eating huge 50k-75k breaths for a very long time. I won't be able to handle it with solo cooldowns except for Anti-Magic Shell.

So I'm basically pretty scared of our next attempts. If the DPS starts using Vesperon portals to remove Twilight Torment, they'll have very little DPS time on Shadron due to his own portals, and we have enough members die to waves and void zones without the extra huge reflective damage they'll be taking from TT. And while Shadron is still up, which'll be for a very long time if the DPS take Vesperon portals, sometime or another all personal and external cooldowns will be exhausted and I'll keel over to a 35k breath assuming Shadron add aura but no breath.

So, I'm hunting for advice. Would a Blood spec with the new Will of the Necropolis be worth using in place of the nerfed Bone Shield? Should the DPS ignore Vesperon portals still? Is there some kind of combined cooldown rotation I can use for consistent 75k breaths (worst-case scenario, every 10 seconds there's a breath)? Do I suck? >.>

01-23-2009, 09:22 AM
No.... we're screwed... lol. The only solution I can see is extreme stamina stacking. I thought about going blood as well but the 15% you get from Will is still less than Bone Shield. You also won't get AMZ and a completely immune AMS. We were doing 10 man Sarth 3D last night, DPS was more than fine. Tenebron died well before the second hatching.

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the fact that Shadron's shield now makes Sartharion completely immune.... I can't get rid of my blood runes consistently to get the 10% extra parry unless I grab an add. Of course if I grab an add then my BS goes down faster. So dumb.

01-23-2009, 09:24 AM
Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the fact that Shadron's shield now makes Sartharion completely immune.... I can't get rid of my blood runes consistently to get the 10% extra parry unless I grab an add. Of course if I grab an add then my BS goes down faster. So dumb.

Ah, I already found the solution to that - once the shield pops up, just use Pestilence. Apparently still consumes your runes even though Sarth's immune.

01-23-2009, 09:34 AM
Sarth 3D Blood spec (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMqI0IobRuuZhg0zZfg00h0o)

This is the spec I have been reading about to use to help you live through the big breaths. After that, its just about stacking stam to pump up your health pool. I dont know if this will work or be the way to go, but this is what I'm going to try first. My guild doesnt have a Feral, so I am the most logic choice..

The following is the rotation that I thought up, let me know what you all think:

PS (Disco Priest) > AMS > IBF (plus PWS) > IBF (pally Shield) > VB (DS or Pet + PWS) > VB (DS or Pet) > AMS > IBF (PWS) > IBF (this one is close) > Dead (or AotD if its up) > restart rotation

This would keep me up for about 10 breaths. Giving, IMO, way more than enough time for the DPS to do there job (kill Shad with Vesp up).

any thoughts?

01-23-2009, 10:58 AM
One of my jobs is research into future encounters, so its helpful if people keep their strategy's clear. Any way you could not abbreviate those abilities, or a glossary I could be pointed to?

I just need to know every possible thing we can do for the MT during that phase of Sarth3d, and I couldn't really make sense of the above post.

01-23-2009, 11:33 AM
PS = Pain suppresion
PWS = power word shield
DS = Pally divine shield
pet = Hunter tenacity pet and I think its called sacrificing roar (its 30% dam transfer to pet, look it up)

all the others are common DK terms.

01-23-2009, 04:25 PM
10938 - 14062 is the base damage for the breath.

+ 100% Fire Damage Taken
+ 50% Fire Damage Dealt by Sarth
+ 75% Fire Damage Taken

That works out as 2.75*(1.5*Base Damage)?

1.5*Base Damage due to Acolyte of Shadron (Causes Sartharion to do +50% Fire Damage, which is 1.5*Base)

What I'm wondering though, is wouldn't the Fire Damage taken debuffs both be calculated into the original damage taken? Rather than Stacking?

Thatd give a range of 45119.25 - 58005.75.

Atleast, that's how I thought it would have worked? No clue - So correct me if I'm wrong? :<

Copy Pasted that from another thread I replied in - thats 25 man damage. I'm yet to see a 75k hit people keep talking about :s

Even with a 75k hit, FrP + WotN will reduce 75k to 52500. Fully buffed, with VB, I'd survive that., and I'm sure many others could :<

01-23-2009, 04:36 PM
Night I don't think you're taking Tenebrons health debuff into consideration.

10 man Sarth breaths were hitting me for 31-36k. With Tenebron's health debuff I'm sitting at roughly 31k buffed. I could bring that up by switching all of my gems to stam but even then, I don't think it would be higher than 36k health.

36k was completely unmitigated of course and unfortunately with the nerf to BS and IBF they had to be stacked for me to survive and all my other cooldowns (AMS, AMZ) were already spent avoiding the previous 2 buffed breaths.

For consistent breaths the only thing I can think of is stacking stam and speccing into WotN.

01-23-2009, 04:53 PM
Good point ^.- (Why do I always forget about that?)

Got any input on the damage calc. though? Kinda how I thought it worked >.<

If its indeed 58 top end with everything stacked, thats 0.70*58k = 40600. (0.70 due to -15% From frost Pres, and 15% from WotN).

Atleast, I'm assuming thats how WotN + FrPresence damage would stack. If its 85*58000 (49300), followed by 0.85*49300, thats a lil under 42k.

Not a huge difference, but something. I'm yet to test blood tanking this, but will have trying in doing so ^^

01-25-2009, 10:31 PM
Just did this fight tonight. 2 priests and a pally with saves. I have 566 def so IBF was absorbing around 40-42%. Use BS while using AMZ. Pop trinkets and Lichborne while active to keep BS up. And spam Pestilence.

My third 3D kill while tanking....the BS nerf sucks but, it aint the end of the world.

On a different note.....any thoughts about picking up some FR gear?
I used a Chromatic Flask (+35 to all resistance) I may have helped....maybe not.

02-03-2009, 04:18 AM
This is my Sarth 3D tank spec. Threat isn't an issue whatsoever, so I go for max survivability

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EGozhcoZ0xZcghhxboge0o0oz)

edit: FR couldn't hurt but since it's relying on RNG, you could die. I wouldn't sacrifice any stam for it. Is anyone else able to absorb a breath with just Bone Shield and a PW:S ?

Also, remember IBF is buffed by your defense now so you are probably close to 40% if youre def capped.

02-03-2009, 04:43 AM
I didn't want to edit my post again lol. I was looking at your gear, and I'm assuming since it's tank gear in your armory, that this is your setup.

Your bracers need work. You should get a set with a socket and enchant for 40 stam, not stats. I believe the badges ones are better.

Drop some defense, you're way over cap and gem more stam. Get the new sigil its like 15 heroic badges, that procs for like 50-60 defense every time you IT, and lasts for about twice as long as the disease.... so it should always be up.

Obviously you have your pvp trinket on, but if you dont already you should pick up the 111 stam trinket, from heroic AN.

I'm sure theres more stuff that could give you stam, but this stuff you can do today to pick up like 2000+ hp.

02-03-2009, 06:29 AM
Tanked Sarth with the spec I listed above to great success (well relative to the point where I was living through breaths but our DPS and other tanks were failing at fire walls and void zones). A few things I did do though:

1. Craft the titansteel tank helm for the higher stam. I put the FR/Stam enchant on it and the Stam/spell dam reduction meta in it. This is my sarth helm.

2. Use pest to burn blood runes.

3. Even though your IT will come up immune on him, it still puts the disease on him. This is important so that you can get the slow effect up.

4. Get a warlock to CoW the boss and keep it up. Demo shout just doesnt last that long where as a curse is good for a few min.

5. Death rune abilities still result in death runes even if it comes up immune. For some reason I dont understand, death strike was still converting runes to death runes. This was handy for when I wanted/needed rune tap on demand.

Other than that, just learn the dance on CDs (I wrote the list out on paper and called it on vent to who was next, they all had sarth on focus and when it was there turn, watched for the breath). Other than that, dont be the one hit by VZ or FW. You cant remove the twilight debuff anymore, so just turn off auto attack and just use pest to burn blood runes, IT to keep disease up, and stand there.

02-04-2009, 02:23 AM
Blood Boil is probably better if you are able to cast it, because you dont want to pick up anything else.