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JonnyMark
01-22-2009, 12:57 PM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Deathwing&n=Bearlyllegal)

Currently 32609Armor, 37477HP, 36.03% Dodge, (with self mark). I been armoring a lot of high end tank druids especially the well know names on my server. All of them are stacking high stamina, all the gem sockets, stamina.

Expect for the part I am poor and I can't resocket my reds with blues, since reds cost me to much =(.

Why are they stacking stamina and people say you should have at least 50% before you do anything else?

EDIT: These tanks already have the 3 drake achievement for sarth.

morelore
01-22-2009, 12:58 PM
Your high end tanks are probably gearing for sarth3d, which has *enormous* spike damage to survive. You don't need to (and probably shouldn't) gear this way for everyday tanking.

JonnyMark
01-22-2009, 12:59 PM
Your high end tanks are probably gearing for sarth3d, which has *enormous* spike damage to survive. You don't need to (and probably shouldn't) gear this way for everyday tanking.

Why so? Healers do a lot of overhealing, having more stamina means they less overheal.

morelore
01-22-2009, 01:00 PM
That is indeed one way to help your healers pad the meter.

JonnyMark
01-22-2009, 01:03 PM
That is indeed one way to help your healers pad the meter.

Just want to know math + reasoning why having a lot of dodge, vs stamina since stamina scales better with talents then dodge.

squats
01-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Just want to know math + reasoning why having a lot of dodge, vs stamina since stamina scales better with talents then dodge.
at this level of raiding geming for stamina means your healers just work harder when you get hit, the less dodge you have, the more you get hit. just find a balance that works correctly for you. as a druid, geming for just stamina wont help you or your raid because its so situational. in nax you dont take spiked damage as much as you do with 3 drakes up on sarth.

Cheskagarcia
01-23-2009, 12:54 AM
depends on the fight.

you can't dodge a breath that does 25k+ damage right? (well in the 40-50k on 3drake) so you stack stamina to take it in.

afaik, stamina stacking = progression fights vs caster-ish type bosses/mobs. and dodge and stamina and whatever else is usually for melee-ish mobs.

itemizing per fight is usually the way i 'create' my tanking sets so theorycrafting on dodge vs stamina should be RELEVANT only in regard to the actual boss you are itemizing for.

JonnyMark
01-23-2009, 06:52 PM
Depending on group comp, I get 50K+ HP raid buffed 10man. I have yet to run into any problems tanking bosses with 50K HP, and I have yet tank 25man content.

morelore
01-23-2009, 06:57 PM
A: Take the heaviest hit a boss does to you.
B: Find the longest amount of time your healers will need to drop a greater heal on you (usually 2.5 seconds or so).
C: Find the number of times the boss will hit you within limit B.
D: Multiply C with A. Add 10% or so for a buffer. This is how much stamina you need. After you have this much, starting adding avoidance.

JonnyMark
01-29-2009, 12:26 PM
A: Take the heaviest hit a boss does to you.
B: Find the longest amount of time your healers will need to drop a greater heal on you (usually 2.5 seconds or so).
C: Find the number of times the boss will hit you within limit B.
D: Multiply C with A. Add 10% or so for a buffer. This is how much stamina you need. After you have this much, starting adding avoidance.

I am a druid they don't hit me that hard...

9000 (Highest damage) x 3 (3 attacks in 3 secs) = 27k (my HP in caster form)

So I need 27k HP, what do I look like a warrior or paladin? Druids are meat tanks, we are supposed to get HIT a lot, take less damage per hit then other tanks not including avoidance.

(I am rounding)
Naked = 7% Dodge (Non-diminishable)
Naked Bear = 17% Dodge (Non-diminishable)
Bear in tank Gear = 36% Dodge (19% Dodge Diminishable)

0.972 / 19 = 0.05115
0.008555 + 0.05115 = 0.059705
1/0.059705 = 16.74% Real Dodge (Deminished)

so rounding again 17+17 = 34 total dodge (not round would be between maybe 33-34%)

So again, more dodge you stack the more you lose though deminished returns, even though I don't stack dodge at all, I lose 2-3% dodge just cause my gear has dodge. While stamina is always there.

Let me do quick math for a druid with 44% dodge. (8 more then me)
( Dodge for me if I had 44% dodge would be 17%, so 44-17=27)

0.972 / 27 = 0.036
0.008555 + 0.036 = 0.044555
1/0.044555 = 22.44 Real Dodge after diminishing
22.44+17=39.44 dodge, lost about 5% dodge just cause he has 8% dodge more then me. (Round down since its a .44 I rounded up on the .74) 39dodge vs my 34dodge. This druid has 8 more dodge then me but really he will be dodge 5% more, at a loss of HP.

44% Dodge, 39 Real dodge, lose of 5% dodge from DR. Is it really worth stacking dodge since you know the math now.

Disclaimer I am really bad at math please check if it is correct, I double checked but it would still be wrong. Info from http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/40003-diminishing-returns-avoidance.html