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Mefear
01-21-2009, 10:54 PM
Just touched 4k in my current raid, I have a screenshot for now, after raid I'll post a WWS. I frapsed it as well.

The spec I used actually is not prot but mainly arms and I was averaging over 10k TPS spamming Revenge and Heroic strike until I broke my fingers and refreshing sunder.

The only consumables I used were an AP flask and Expertise food.

A few of my pieces were dps, I'll have a link to the gear later but here is the spec used.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAMbdf0t0rrRzrRxhxZVchb)

and here is a screenshot of someones dps meter linked in raid

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: wowscrnshot012109233042gn6.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot012109233042gn6.jpg)


*edit* heres the wws Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/2pfvk6xtmuoc3?s=245642-280002)

Krashtork
01-21-2009, 10:54 PM
Post a link to your armory.

Mefear
01-21-2009, 10:58 PM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aerie+Peak&n=Mefear)

It has the gear I used on it atm so don't know how long that will last until it refreshes.

Xav
01-21-2009, 11:14 PM
Yeah it's been done several times and was already talked about, unrelenting assault arms "prot" spec :p

Ciderhelm
01-21-2009, 11:20 PM
I'm doing a run-through on every boss w/ this build. It may be the new main tank spec.

It is absolutely horrid on trash, though, so you really need to be doing this in a 25-man where you'll have other tanks.

Gothik it does not do well on for obvious reasons, in either phase 1 or phase 2. Kel'thuzad I haven't done w/ this spec.


Finally, please check my Armory for my talent spec. Believe me, those points in Fury are wasted once you realize you can do ~20% more damage by going farther in Prot.

Xav
01-21-2009, 11:24 PM
What's the point of having a main tank spec that makes the tank a steaming pile of ass for the majority of the instance (you know, trash?)

Mefear
01-21-2009, 11:25 PM
yea I like it as a TPS and DPS spec, but other than that trash like you said is horrid and actual mitigation is pretty bad as well.

Rude
01-21-2009, 11:28 PM
To give the OT something to do.

Two questions: Do you ever use Mortal Strike? Are you using intercept to make up for the loss of Warbringer?

Mefear
01-21-2009, 11:32 PM
nope the rotation is stack 5 sunders> spam Heroic strike/Revenge and refresh sunder a few seconds before it falls off

and for most of the points they are just fillers, the intercept can fill for warbringer but I'm usually not the one tanking trash with that spec so there is no reason to go zipping around.

Ciderhelm
01-21-2009, 11:33 PM
What's the point of having a main tank spec that makes the tank a steaming pile of ass for the majority of the instance (you know, trash?)
Yep. This is entirely true, and given that it is sub-par for both Kel'thuzad and Sartharion w/ drakes, it's situational at best. Gothik is a footnote right now so I'm not considering him.

My rationale is that, if you have 3-4 tanks in a 25-man raid and you don't mind respecing at the end of the night, this spec isn't bad for one tank to run with. You're giving up Critical Block, Warbringer, and 2% Stamina, and you're gaining 20% or more damage output.

The sad thing about all this is I've realized how completely dependent I've become on Warbringer. I can't believe we tanked w/o it.

Ciderhelm
01-21-2009, 11:34 PM
nope the rotation is stack 5 sunders> spam Heroic strike/Revenge and refresh sunder a few seconds before it falls off

and for most of the points they are just fillers, the intercept can fill for warbringer but I'm usually not the one tanking trash with that spec so there is no reason to go zipping around.
We have 3 Prot Warriors, so I don't touch Sunder.

Sunder is horrid w/ this. The GCDs you waste on it are 100% wasted. If you're the only Prot Warrior, do not think about running this spec.

Mefear
01-21-2009, 11:36 PM
yea i wasn't min maxin it, just trying something new and winning gold that I could beat someone on dps on patchwerk.

Ciderhelm
01-21-2009, 11:37 PM
To give the OT something to do.

Two questions: Do you ever use Mortal Strike? Are you using intercept to make up for the loss of Warbringer?
I am using Intercept to make up for Warbringer, but it's really not a substitute. Warbringer is better than any single mobility talent/ability in this game, for any class. (Not making that statement for PVP due to DR)


Mortal Strike is a waste of a GCD. Revenge and Shield Slam will both always hit harder than it. I've considered using Mortal Strike just in case my Shield Slam is on cooldown and Revenge hasn't lit up, but instead I use Shield Block w/ my Shield Slam any time Revenge hasn't lit up, so it'll be up by next CD (w/ very, very rare exception). I haven't had a totally wasted GCD yet.

Rude
01-21-2009, 11:44 PM
Mortal Strike is a waste of a GCD. Revenge and Shield Slam will both always hit harder than it.

Well, I wasn't thinking that it was going to do any kind of damage with a tank weapon. But I don't know what the threat from it's like with TacMastery. I don't imagine it being able to beat out the revenge spam though.

Is it still no problem having heroic strike up almost all the time?

Ciderhelm
01-21-2009, 11:47 PM
Well, I wasn't thinking that it was going to do any kind of damage with a tank weapon. But I don't know what the threat from it's like with TacMastery. I don't imagine it being able to beat out the revenge spam though.

Is it still no problem having heroic strike up almost all the time?

Heroic Strike w/ this build is part of the package. There's virtually no fight, even w/o Sanctuary, where I can't spam it so long as Revenge is available.


Revenge = 5 rage.
Glyph of Revenge = Free Heroic Strike.
Glyph of Heroic Strike = 10 rage on Heroic Strike crit.

If you're using Revenge nearly every GCD, then nearly every Heroic Strike is free.

Rage is just not an issue. However, that can fall apart if Revenge doesn't light up and you burn a Heroic/Shield Slam combo and for whatever reason can't afford the next Revenge. This happened on Noth w/o Sanctuary for me.

minrog
01-22-2009, 03:49 AM
Xav I thought I'd mention something that's an interesting counterpoint to your argument about the main tank and trash.

Trash doesn't enrage. At least for our guild the problem is DPS on bosses the trash is trivial. If it takes another 20 seconds per trash pack (though the paladin and DK tanks would probably be able to cover it) but it gives you a way to make up for 1500 DPS players on the boss fights it's worth it for me. I'm not in charge and I have no control over the other guys' performance so the best I can do is make my own contribution to the raid as much as it can be.

I worry about the Sunder armor issue. How much DPS off that 4k number are you losing because you are doing sunders? If it's only like 10% or something it would probably still be worth it.

Morgo
01-22-2009, 04:10 AM
Having 1500 dps players in the raid is a seperate issue. As Xav already pointed out, most of the time spend in an instance is clearing trash. And the more aoe-capable tanks you have, the faster you clear trash. I love especially pulling whole rooms in Deathknight wing and not having to worry about our melees dying, because we run with up to 3 prot warrs doing a shockwave rotation to stop the bahst'ds from spinning.

Krays
01-22-2009, 04:28 AM
You gained 200-300 dps, compared to someone as prot, on one fight but on majority fights you will do way lower dps than prot, due to no devastate,no sword and board, shockwave or crit block. You will not notice the small dps increase anywhere else , tps is slightly higher with this build when you are facing a melle boss, but not on patchwerk, since he hands out threat freely to the two tanks.

Imo blizz should tweak our prot tree, so that we can do this small extra dps while retaining shockwave. That would solve all my issues with prot. Something that ignore armor, and some more persistant dps would go a long way.

Ciderhelm
01-22-2009, 01:18 PM
You gained 200-300 dps, compared to someone as prot, on one fight but on majority fights you will do way lower dps than prot, due to no devastate,no sword and board, shockwave or crit block. You will not notice the small dps increase anywhere else , tps is slightly higher with this build when you are facing a melle boss, but not on patchwerk, since he hands out threat freely to the two tanks.

Imo blizz should tweak our prot tree, so that we can do this small extra dps while retaining shockwave. That would solve all my issues with prot. Something that ignore armor, and some more persistant dps would go a long way.
You gain quite a bit more than 200-300 DPS, and that stays present for the majority of fights. This isn't a gimmick Patchwerk spec, it just happens to put out good numbers on Patchwerk.

Horacio
01-22-2009, 01:25 PM
This is an advertisement for dual specs, IMO. Still no eta on them but for things like this.....yeah, perfect.

Myzery
01-22-2009, 02:27 PM
To max dps, here's the type of gear you want while staying uncrittable:

chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (http://chardev.org/?template=118874)

Uses a resil flask, although you could probably sub that out for more dps. It's pretty crazy but could handle patchwerk and probably hit 5,000 dps.

Ciderhelm
01-22-2009, 02:37 PM
To max dps, here's the type of gear you want while staying uncrittable:

chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x (http://chardev.org/?template=118874)

Uses a resil flask, although you could probably sub that out for more dps. It's pretty crazy but could handle patchwerk and probably hit 5,000 dps.
If you're using a Revenge build this does not work. You need as much Avoidance/Block as possible or you wind up w/ streaks where you have no filler ability.

Nez
01-22-2009, 02:56 PM
I tried this last night on Saph and KT.
First, I have to say my gear set wasnt where I needed/would want it to be with expertise/block to make this work better so my TPS was lower than normal. And it took a little bit to figure out the attack timing to keep revenge on cooldown. But I wanted to try it out anywise. It worked OK on Saph. Numbers were smaller than I had hoped for, but I think that was alot to do with not having enough expertise with my block set that I had on.

On KT it was almost impossible for me to maintain aggro, serious rage starvation. I felt like I was tanking Gorefiend again, except without the rage. DPS is onyouassboy! A parry here and there were total rage killers also. So not so fun on caster bosses. But if you can make sure your expertise/hit is high enough, with tons of block this might work pretty well.

Cider is way right about sunders being a killer, I was the only warrior in raid, so working them in surely hurt the output as well. Plus shouts etc. It looks nice seeing all of the large revenge numbers though. :D I will try this again with a gear set better tuned to this build and see how it goes.

Myzery
01-22-2009, 03:25 PM
If you're using a Revenge build this does not work. You need as much Avoidance/Block as possible or you wind up w/ streaks where you have no filler ability.

Ahh yes, you'd need to limit your getting hit streaks. At the same time, stacking of STR/Crit will dramatically increase the damage of each Rev/HS/SS that lands.

I originally envisioned this gearset to maximize 15/5/51 dps. I think there will be some happy medium between stacking avoidance/block for Revenge procs and dps stats to improve your actual damage.

Crit
I imagine Crit is especially strong in this build given deep wounds, impale, and polearm spec. Add in the 21crit rating 3%critdmg meta gem and your looking at 231.75% damage crits plus an application of deep wounds.

I wouldn't be surprised to see crit surpass hit/expertise point-for-point as a dps stat in this build. (after expertise softcap, of course.)

Rend.
Is Rend/Improved Rend worth considering for this build? It's probably too low in your priorities to matter (Rev > SS > HT > MS) but it's somewhat viable in deep prot rotations anyways and you need filler talent points anyways so it might be considered. Don't forget Trauma.

Cruelty vs. AttT
As I mentioned the additional crit synergies of this build/gearset, cruelty may prove superior point-for-point to AttT.

Glyphs
- I doubt Glyph of HS and Glyph of Revenge are both needed on bosses, given the cost of Rev.
- Glyph of MS might be a viable option to squeeze a bit more dps.
- Likely want to stick to Glyph of Blocking for the additional SS dmg and mitigation, although don't expect 100% uptime anymore.


Revenge uptime

For this gearset/build:
Dodge: 17.97%
Parry: 18.21%
Block: 19.64%

Add in misses and buffs and your probably sitting at about 65%-70% avoidance/block. This would cause revenge droughts when Shield Block isn't active (25% uptime). When your not Revin', you'd be SSin' or MSin' so it's not a total loss of dps.

Block rating will be key to high revenge uptime. My biggest concern seems to be the boss hit frequency with this build. You're heavily reliant on <1 second incoming attacks to keep Revenge on CD, regardless of your avoidance/block.

squats
01-22-2009, 04:02 PM
i dont think i could ever see myself running with this spec without duel specs being in game.. and even still, i was hoping to be able to go with a fury off spec.

i am way to in love with the standard prot spec.. i enjoy my avoidance, heheh.

PS- Gratz on your new shield Ciderhelm.

Magnuss
01-22-2009, 07:37 PM
This is my first time seeing a spec like this and i can understand how it would work... curious though, would it be viable or even remotely worthwhile for PvP? i mean you are missing out on some of arms' best talents which is already not as good as fury, and you dont have the last stand or warbringer from prot... but 1 second revenges, an MS, and your prot survivability, makes for an interesting thought... probably not worth a shit tho.

Mefear
01-23-2009, 04:55 AM
This is my first time seeing a spec like this and i can understand how it would work... curious though, would it be viable or even remotely worthwhile for PvP? i mean you are missing out on some of arms' best talents which is already not as good as fury, and you dont have the last stand or warbringer from prot... but 1 second revenges, an MS, and your prot survivability, makes for an interesting thought... probably not worth a shit tho.

No, the only thing the spec is good for is MT'ing bosses other than that quite useless, will probably be somewhat viable when dual spec system is implemented but other than that it was just a patchwerk dps test for me.

Also for pvp a definite no.

Morgo
01-24-2009, 03:04 AM
Revenge does not have charges like overpower. You can hit it up to 4 times with just one dodge/parry/block. Be advised however, that misses won't proc it, so you are missing 10% proc rate there.

OrionAntares
01-29-2009, 03:12 PM
I was wondering what build you finally come up with for this? Also did you test it on Malygos at all?

Wartorn
02-02-2009, 08:50 AM
This is an advertisement for dual specs, IMO. Still no eta on them but for things like this.....yeah, perfect.

Exactly.

I don't PvP, so I was waiting on dual spec to use an arm/prot spec.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAbIzf0t00rR0bZbZMIprx0zib)

JPC1086
02-18-2009, 02:17 AM
Hey all,

Sorry for the bump of a dead thread but I haven't been around readin here lately. Anyways, tested this spec out on patch using a few dps pieces and with the DW nerf, I only did 3300 dps, and my threat was actually lower it seemed. 6.8k avg tps it seemed and the prot warrior OT was riding me the whole time.. Anyways, it was a cool thing to try and it was fun doing so, but I don't recommend this cause the rest of the raid (including trash) was a nightmare.

Disruptor
02-18-2009, 02:34 AM
Wow nvm, EDIT ,i hope nobody realizes...

Kahmal
02-18-2009, 06:22 AM
Time out so we're just gonna be spamming Heroic Strike and Revenge? .....how I feel like I'm a level 60 Fury Warrior again. >.<

JPC1086
02-19-2009, 01:19 AM
yea thats all you do is spam those 2. DR comes into play so i threw out a shield slam when i needed to. i recommend this spec for when u need to afk on patch and have your little bro tank while you make a sandwich.

Zoicks
02-19-2009, 02:09 AM
4k sounds impressive on a boss and all but like...is that whole deal really worth it? Personally I can pull 2.5-3k raid buffed in my guild's 10man nax in prot, and hopefully more as soon as that new patch comes where we all gain rage from dodge/parries. Right now trash holds my dps down because I mitigate so much of my fights due to avoidances..Do I get rid of some for rage income? Or just tough it out until this new patch?

Anhelo
02-23-2009, 09:32 PM
Can someone link the talent build Cider uses? The one that goes further into the Prot tree.

Triden
03-14-2009, 12:33 PM
From MMO Champion:



Arms:
- Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the targetís non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds.