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View Full Version : Absorbing another guild - Questions



ceffo
01-20-2009, 06:28 AM
Hiall a few questions from a GM point of view

We have recently cleared 10 man naxx and we are currently running 2 teams but the time has come (majority guild vote) to do 25s

So i have embarked on a guild/player recruitment program. Which has lead me to absorbing another smaller guild which isnt going anywhere but the Gm and members are keen to come across.

Q1 - Should the Gm of the other guild being absorbed be an officer in this one?

Q2 - We are full up on tanks in guild atm and they have 1 from their guild who is a bit hesitant to respec while collecting tanking gear? What to do so it doesnt piss him off.

Q3 - They have said because they havent done naxx before will we help gear them up (dps/healer). Some in guild have offered to run their alts through 1-2 heroics a day at the same time as these guys (mains) so they can meet the 1600 min dps. Does anyone think this is fair of me?

Q4 - Should we take the new guys on a test 10man naxx run to see how they work as a unit before going 25man with them?

Q5 - Maintaining harmony within the guild - Im sure most Gms are aware not all people get along. How do you resolve disputes with the new guys and current "if they do arise"?
Do you pull people aside or put em both in the same group/vent channel and talk it over?


Sorry for the questions. i did a search and didnt find anything about this parcticular subject on tankspot. I would post on wow forums but waaaay too many trolls.


Thanks in advance for replies.

onimarishu
01-20-2009, 06:43 AM
Before Burning Crusade, I was in a situation similar to this (but on the other end of the stick), where our guild (running MC with an couple of allied guilds but wanting more) was absorbed into one of the server's premier raid guild.


Q1 - Should the Gm of the other guild being absorbed be an officer in this one?

I would think that on some level, at least the GM should be absorbed as an officer. Not sure on your structure (1 officer level or more), but it help with continuity.

Q2 - We are full up on tanks in guild atm and they have 1 from their guild who is a bit hesitant to respec while collecting tanking gear? What to do so it doesnt piss him off.

See if one of your tanks would be willing to sit for this tank on Naxx10s, or even respec. Maybe set up some sort of rotation so each tank spends a week as DPS (unless one tank vastly outgears the others and is the "MT").

Q3 - They have said because they havent done naxx before will we help gear them up (dps/healer). Some in guild have offered to run their alts through 1-2 heroics a day at the same time as these guys (mains) so they can meet the 1600 min dps. Does anyone think this is fair of me?

Anything that helps the new members better themselves and prepare for raids is "fair".

Q4 - Should we take the new guys on a test 10man naxx run to see how they work as a unit before going 25man with them?

Seeing how they work together as a unit would be good, but obviosly once some of your members get into the fray in the 25 man version it will change the dynamic. A couple "test" naxx10 runs would, however, allow you to gauge their performance and find where the new members need to improve and to get a feel for their personalities so you know where there might be personality conflicts with current members.

Q5 - Maintaining harmony within the guild - Im sure most Gms are aware not all people get along. How do you resolve disputes with the new guys and current "if they do arise"?
Do you pull people aside or put em both in the same group/vent channel and talk it over?

This is one of the points where absorbing the GM as an officer would help. You can take the offending people aside, with a current officer and the old gm, and talk over the differences and try to find a solution. Having their old GM might help the new members feel like they're not getting rolled over by your officers, and having a current officer present will help the current members feel like they aren't having these new people just come in and run roughshod on their "turf".

Hope my suggestions are helpful.

Amnith
01-20-2009, 06:46 AM
Q1: No, I do not feel that he should. Not if you are absorbing them anyways. If you are merging two about equal size guilds (say two guilds of 15 active members to form a 25 man raiding guild), I'd suggest having him as an officer.

Q2: He's hesistant to respec tanking or respec DPS? If he's a tank it is his right to stay that spec, in my opinion. You could perhaps tell him that he'll be granted raid spots when he has gotten gear sufficient to (off)tank without getting crit.

Q3: I think it sounds reasonable. However, you do not need all of your raid members to be topped in heroic emblem gear to be able to do Naxx 10. I suggest dragging them through there to get them some upgrades. At least at the beginning of the instance where the mobs and bosses are quite easy and easily understandable.

Q4: Yes.

Q5: I, being a GM myself, try to solve the problems as they come. I have not witnessed many quarrels, but should they arise as you say I think the best thing would be to get them together and talk it through. If they continue, try to make them compromise towards oneanother. There is no real answer to this. Just do what you feel is right.

I am sorry if my answers are of little or no help to you, but it is what I think regarding the questions you have asked. Good luck.

lorelye
01-27-2009, 11:34 AM
Q1 - Should the Gm of the other guild being absorbed be an officer in this one?

Absolutely not. While he could be considered for an officer position much later, first it should be seen how well he matches with the guild, over time. It should be made abundantly clear that being an officer or GL in a previous guild does not give anyone authority in yours, or you will end up with a dozen back-seat raid leaders.



Q2 - We are full up on tanks in guild atm and they have 1 from their guild who is a bit hesitant to respec while collecting tanking gear? What to do so it doesnt piss him off.


Ask the tanks to establish a rotation. Ask all of them to find out which are willing to respec, not just that one guy. Someone will be willing.



Q3 - They have said because they havent done naxx before will we help gear them up (dps/healer). Some in guild have offered to run their alts through 1-2 heroics a day at the same time as these guys (mains) so they can meet the 1600 min dps. Does anyone think this is fair of me?


Under no circumstances would I promise to gear someone up. It's their responsibility. If guildies decide to group with them for heroics, that's their choice, not yours.



Q4 - Should we take the new guys on a test 10man naxx run to see how they work as a unit before going 25man with them?


Sure, why not? But keep in mind that they might bomb a little because of being nervous.



Q5 - Maintaining harmony within the guild - Im sure most Gms are aware not all people get along. How do you resolve disputes with the new guys and current "if they do arise"? Do you pull people aside or put em both in the same group/vent channel and talk it over?


I only step in if members are unable to resolve issues among themselves. This hasn't happened in a long time, since most of the ones who cannot handle it themselves, end up leaving the guild in a big bonfire of drama. Your job is to listen to guild policy questions, comments on implementation of those policies, and any reports of violations of guild rules. All other issues are their problem.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Lizana
01-27-2009, 11:59 AM
First off from a GM that has absorbed 6 smaller guilds over our time, DONT DO IT, it will only lead to bad crap down the road. Take the people you want, dont take the rest is what i have started doing.




Q1 - Should the Gm of the other guild being absorbed be an officer in this one?

No, Not a chance in hades, not at all, NEVER, do not do this. The reason is, they arent one of your officers, they are this other persons GM and those people will still try to look up to them if you give them a position of power. Unless you trust that person like you trust your regular officers, dont do it


Q2 - We are full up on tanks in guild atm and they have 1 from their guild who is a bit hesitant to respec while collecting tanking gear? What to do so it doesnt piss him off.

Either make a rotation or bench the worst performer. Some one will get mad, this is just part of a merger and what always happens, some one will always lose "their spot"


Q3 - They have said because they havent done naxx before will we help gear them up (dps/healer). Some in guild have offered to run their alts through 1-2 heroics a day at the same time as these guys (mains) so they can meet the 1600 min dps. Does anyone think this is fair of me?

If they are dedicated enough to get their own heroic runs, they are just wanting to mooch shiny purples off you, once again this is a good sign that a merger is bad bad bad. The latest guild we merged with out of 45 people only 3 of them ever became raid ready.


Q4 - Should we take the new guys on a test 10man naxx run to see how they work as a unit before going 25man with them?

Yes. Run a couple, Run a 25 man before you even merge as a trial run. Run a few heroics with their officers. See how they play, see how they are geared. Chances are if officers dont care enough to learn their class and play their members wont either.


Q5 - Maintaining harmony within the guild - Im sure most Gms are aware not all people get along. How do you resolve disputes with the new guys and current "if they do arise"?
Do you pull people aside or put em both in the same group/vent channel and talk it over?

You have to set expectations before a merger happens. Who is in charge, what the chain of command is. Remember, this is your guild, not theirs. They have no right to disrespect anyone in it, just like your guildies shouldn't disrespect the new people. If a merger is to be successful they cant be "the merger people" they have to be the new guildies. There is no them and us, its all the guild. But set the rules and make sure they know them before coming.




You need to be very sure that these people will fit and that you want to open this can of worms. Because you will be opening yourself up to a lot of problems from doing this if your not prepared.

Genova
01-28-2009, 05:49 PM
Q1- No, I wouldnt do it.. for all the reasons stated above, if he had trouble getting his guild to run naxx(im assuming that as I dont know their situation), what makes him a good canidate for an officer in yours. Not to mention it WILL make some of your long term members very angry.

Q2- See how well your tanks like this new tank, give him a chance... for all you know he is the Bee's Knee's tank that has been hiding forever and will blow all of your's out of the water. Everyone deserves a chance, and if your tanks are willing to rotate in with him... all the better.

Q3- This is touchy, your going to have to weed out the greedy gear mongers somehow. Your trying to progress to 25mans, but you would have to teach these people through 10 mans if they wanted gear. I would say let them get their best heroic/crafted gear and if they happen to be lucky enough to get in on one of your 10 man runs, good for them. But dont forget your focus, progressing to 25man stuff... not training and gearing another 10 man group.

Q4- If theyve never ran it, they are going to be new and nervous regardless if its 10 or 25. I would start trying 25mans with them, see how they flow in that enviroment since that is what you plan on progressing to.

Q5- Members have problems and drama... let them fight it out through PM's and Tells. You cant control two human beings over the internet on an online game. I was in a guild that the GM tried to be like Dr. Phil and it annoyed the piss out of me. You only step in if something goes against your guild policy or they start affecting the guild as a whole.


Every 'merger' should be treated as a recruit, they havent earned their membership... they have just earned the recruit period. They still have to prove themselves as members.

All stuff is IMHO and worth $.02 :)

minrog
01-29-2009, 03:38 AM
In a general sense this is something that is going to turn out badly. As for your specific questions:

Q1 - Give him as little power as you possibly can. It sounds like he was running a casual level up as you feel guild and doesn't know how to take it beyond that. Any power you give up to this guy is going to shoot you in the foot because you won't agree on "the right" way to do things.

Q2 - You do raid work to win. Nobody deserves anything and performance is what you need to look at. If he's a noob let him drift off to a noob guild or work out how to perform. If he does in fact become a solid tanking member and does it "better" than your other guys be thankful because usually all you get from a merger is a bunch of drama for 3-6 months and none of the people you added still with you at the end. The ones who need to be tanking the bosses are the ones that bring you boss kills. The other guys need to pay the 100 gold for respec fees. hehe.

Q3 - Same policy as your other guys and it depends on how serious you are about succeeding. Don't make your long termers run a bunch of terrible casual players through raids so they can leech, you need to keep your performers happy. If you find a diamond in the rough bring him into your real team runs and let the other ones go.

Q4 - Yes.

Q5 - It's almost never condusive to talk it over with 30 or 40 people if there is drama. Two or three guys talk and make up a concensus about how things should be but you aren't going to hear from the rest. Sort if out with them directly but realize no matter what happens it will end up "new guy" versus "old guy". Keep in mind too that it is *your* guild. They want you to make decisions and you need to realize if they vote some other guy into your spot it becomes *his* guild. You have all the authority so you need to exercise it and best done with the offending members head on.

Note:

Don't do it. If you do it this time learn from it and never do it again. :P If you want to do well in raiding you need to work on cherry picking the 2 or 3 good players and let the other ones go as they may. Don't take 15 bad apples into your guild just to fill a couple of raid spots.

TiptoesDMF
01-29-2009, 03:50 AM
I was through that from both sides, as GM and as mergee. It's in 99% of cases bad thing. Anyways, my opinion is that they should be all treated as new recruits with no benefits or overlooking something.



Q1 - Should the Gm of the other guild being absorbed be an officer in this one?
No. Sub-officer maybe and you should talk to them more as they know their people



Q2 - We are full up on tanks in guild atm and they have 1 from their guild who is a bit hesitant to respec while collecting tanking gear? What to do so it doesnt piss him off.
This one is tricky - most of the tanks are tanks deep in heart, it's not like they tank cause they have to. I think there is bigger % of tanks refusing to spec dps than retadins refusing to spec holy if they don't get perma spots.



Q3 - They have said because they havent done naxx before will we help gear them up (dps/healer). Some in guild have offered to run their alts through 1-2 heroics a day at the same time as these guys (mains) so they can meet the 1600 min dps. Does anyone think this is fair of me?

Just run as much things as you can, 10 mens, heroics, try out easy wings in N25 - it will provide you not only with gear but experience, teamwork and teamspirit as well.




Q4 - Should we take the new guys on a test 10man naxx run to see how they work as a unit before going 25man with them?
As said above, run as many 10 mens as possible, 2 separate groups, mixed old core and newcomers. Make them work together, have someone evaluate other group for you, make sure the critic is objective, not just "they suck cause they are new".



Q5 - Maintaining harmony within the guild - Im sure most Gms are aware not all people get along. How do you resolve disputes with the new guys and current "if they do arise"?
Do you pull people aside or put em both in the same group/vent channel and talk it over?
Talking it over with everyone involved at the same time is good thing, as long as they are mature and can act like that. You should know your own people well enough to know what is just mindless QQ and whining and what is potentional issue.


Saying again, most of merges don't turn out that well, in the end, you might end up with only 5 more peope than pre-merge, as others will leave or fail.

lorelye
01-31-2009, 05:36 AM
Hmm, I don't agree that guild merges are all bad. I've done it three times, with each group ~10 people.

First time, I gave the new members too much power in the guild and they eventually got annoyed when I didn't do things enough "their way". Although they were good raiders and nice people, this only lasted about 6 months, before the inevitable explosion.

Second time, I got raiders who never really were hardcore raiders. They hung around a long time, but were pretty casual guys.

Third time, I understood that it wasn't a "merger" as such. I was just recruiting 5-6 at once, knowing that at least half of this "dozen" would end up being more part-time guys or never transferring at all. That always happens. We'd been clearing Naxx with 18-22 people so there was room. I made this group very aware of common issues to avoid, and they've done an outstanding job of avoiding these. Most common issues being: back-seat leading, and the appearance of being "clique" or elitists.

Having made them aware of the clique issue, they hopped in and split up and got to know everyone, and I am quite happy with them, as is the guild as a whole. Their efforts in this direction paid off tenfold in guild relations with them.

Since soooo many people started guilds in Wrath, I think you'll find this very common over the next few months.