PDA

View Full Version : Issues with Raid finding (long)



Durandro
01-18-2009, 09:29 PM
Hello all, I play a Dwarf Protection Warrior, and recently I've been trying to get into Naxx 10 raids as an OT (since I need to learn the ropes). Problem being, I'm practically laughed at every time I try to join a PUG and told my 'gear isn't high enough'.

Needless to say, after all the time and effort I've put into gearing up through normal and heroic instances, and grinding through more Saronite and Titanium then I'd like to count, and still having my gear looked down upon is somewhat disheartening.

Now I have looked up Naxx 10 on various websites (and watched every single video made by Cidarhelm about Naxxramas), and according to these guides my gear is more then enough:

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azjol-Nerub&n=Durandro)

I know it's not perfect, I'm missing the crafted Blacksmithing boots (which I'll have tomorrow, when my alt's Titansteel cooldown refreshs) and there are several heroic items I could still get hold of (which I will be attempting in the mean time) and I do have the epic Sons of Hodir shoulder enchant on standby (I'm not really willing to shell out that much gold for a blue). But I'm fully enchanted and properly gemmed at all times, and my defense rating is crit immune and my hit rating and expertise are pretty good. And considering DPS can jump straight into a raid without entering a heroic at all (infact, it's extremely common for them not to have even done the normal yet when they PUG with me!), why is there such a high standard for tanks?

I know the tank is the most gear dependant member of the Raid, and does require experience to MT effectively, but it makes me wonder if anyone who can actually get upgrades from Naxx will ever be chosen! I saw this during BC alot as well, with BT geared tanks regularly being chosen over me for Kara. So how, without being a member of a Raiding Guild (which, no offense to all hardcore Raiders here, is a bit much for me to handle) do you ever get the gear and experience?

It's a real /facepalm for me, and really does drive me to insanity. It wouldn't be so bad if people were polite about it, but they are so abrupt and distainful - which I think is a ridiculous double standard, considering my own gear checks on them which would make me not even want them in an easier heroic...

Sorry for the huge blocks of text and the somewhat angsty and upset nature of this, but how do I get over this problem without having alot of Raider friends?

Edit: Also, I do have the crafted Frost Resist gear for if I ever come up against Sapphron. For whatever good that would do me.

~Durandro, Dwarf Protection Warrior, EU|Azjol-Nerub

Kedearian
01-18-2009, 09:36 PM
nii > he has the red sword... and the defense trinket...

did you post in the wrong thread? there is no spell power gear on that warrior.

FR gear is useless imo.

Niian
01-18-2009, 09:39 PM
The link he posted first went to a Pally :eek: so yeh.

Durandro
01-18-2009, 09:49 PM
Yeah, sorry, I posted a link to someone else's character that I checked out beforehand. Oppsies. But suffice to say, I have no SP gear, I'm not that new! :)

loquatious
01-18-2009, 10:03 PM
your gear is fine possibly your competition has much much better gear though based on the reactions you are getting. I dont think I had 25k unbuffed health when we cleared the first few wings in Naxx.

Btw that 16 parry gem you have socketed makes kittens cry.

Durandro
01-18-2009, 10:13 PM
Reason I have those was my Jewelcrafter alt had a stack of Rubies to level through, and I thought I may as well use them. Still haven't managed to get the Solid Sky Sapphire recipie drop from UP yet, unfortunately, and prices are rather bloated on my server's AH right now.

One more thing to note: there's only one other person in my guild (though it's a Discipline Priest, so we have no issues doing heroics, at least). I do lack the resources to throw thousands of gold at my Warrior at the current time, so I have to make so with whatever fate throws my way (and thankfully fate threw me about 5 Titantium nodes with 3-4 ore each in less then an hour quite recently).

And lastly, Engineering. I've been told it's utterly worthless these days, what's the wider concensus on this? Personally I do like having my Epic Flying Machine, Goggles and Mote Extractor, but is it worth it in the long run or should I consider the extremely expensive and painful process of skilling up Jewelcrafting for him as well so I can use the BoP epic gems?

Ezimodnar
01-19-2009, 11:05 AM
We can tell you all we want that your gear is plenty fine enough to tank most of naxx 10 (and it is) however that's simply not how trade channel PUG's work. Most of them are in for the easy clears where most players can be carried by the performance of others. In most cases, the roles carrying the rest will be the tanks and healers because those are just the easiest to do it with.

Not much else one can do there.


Solid Sky Sapphire recipie drop from UP yet

That recipe is bought with JCing daily tokens, it isn't a drop.

Slobash
01-19-2009, 12:29 PM
There's some nice upgrades for your that you can buy with badges of heroism, tier 7 gloves and a belt especially. Maybe look at getting the tanking necklace crafted. But really you're fine to run Naxx, it's just as has been said generally pugs will just look for the easiest clear possible. Have you explored raiding guilds on your server?

Shakari
01-20-2009, 12:29 AM
Reason I have those was my Jewelcrafter alt had a stack of Rubies to level through, and I thought I may as well use them. Still haven't managed to get the Solid Sky Sapphire recipie drop from UP yet, unfortunately, and prices are rather bloated on my server's AH right now.

One more thing to note: there's only one other person in my guild (though it's a Discipline Priest, so we have no issues doing heroics, at least). I do lack the resources to throw thousands of gold at my Warrior at the current time, so I have to make so with whatever fate throws my way (and thankfully fate threw me about 5 Titantium nodes with 3-4 ore each in less then an hour quite recently).

And lastly, Engineering. I've been told it's utterly worthless these days, what's the wider concensus on this? Personally I do like having my Epic Flying Machine, Goggles and Mote Extractor, but is it worth it in the long run or should I consider the extremely expensive and painful process of skilling up Jewelcrafting for him as well so I can use the BoP epic gems?

You can by the recipe for Solid Sky Sapphire from the vendor in dalaran via JC daily tokens :)

Durandro
01-20-2009, 12:41 AM
Mmm. Got confused with the +32 Stamina, +2% armour Meta recipie. Problem is there's too many things to buy with the Jewelcrafting Tokens, so it'll probably take the best part of another month before I have everything me and my Priest friend needs from there.

Raiding Guilds aren't my thing. Far too much time commitment and drama. I had enough drama from a guild numbering on average less then ten people.

I'm starting to think the only way to run a raid is to start one myself, i.e. MTing without any experience at all. And that is a frightening concept to say the least.

No comments on whether Engineering is worth it in the long run?

Kataztrophe
01-20-2009, 04:39 AM
Your gear is fine to tank all of Naxx 10. But like the other guys have said, in a pug they will take whoever is the best geared.

Just keep running heroics for more badge gear. If you have Atlasloot, try to run the heroics that drop better rings for you (I can't remember them atm). Make Nexus and Gun'drak runs everyday. The easiest heroics imo, and five badges each.

Erja
01-20-2009, 07:23 AM
Like you said, putting one together yourself is always a good option (although a bit more time-consuming). Just find a decently geared MT or comparable OT. My first two times through Naxx10 was as an OT and watching videos / reading the fights beforehand helped immensely. I've found that having confidence makes a big difference - if you are afraid of failing and think you will, well... :p

Could be hard to get into a PUG if they are scrutinizing your gear, but my guess would be that it's less often going to be the case that dps/healers will look at the OT/raid leaders gear and drop group because "his HP is too low". Good luck!

Durandro
01-20-2009, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the comments. As an update, I managed to get the epic gloves from Gun'Drak today, along with the emblem reward neck.

I was hoping to get the belt from Azjol Nerub, but it ended in a /facepalm when the DPS couldn't work out the words 'step through him' when faced with Pound on the last boss. Four wipes, and each time it was just me and the healer left, unable to deal with the elite ads that then swarmed over us. Hopefully I'll have better luck tomorrow.

How is my Hit Rating (197) and Expertise (24) looking? I know for a fact they are both needed while tanking bosses, but how much do I actually need?

Eemo
01-20-2009, 03:06 PM
Most of naxx is much more demanding on the dps to know the fights than the tanks.

4 horsemen is pretty easy on 10 man. Obviously Heigan and Saph both require tanks to do some serious movement of themselves, the boss, or both, and Grobb is very challenging for tanks not used to moving bosses around, but if you watch a couple of videos you should be able to handle them.

Unlike some prior instances, the trash in there is cake. All in all, I'd say don't be scared.

And while you may not be interested in a raiding guild, you can probably find a casual guild that's capable of clearing 10 man and would like to add a third tank or an alternate tank. You might not get a guaranteed slot every time they run, but a lot of casual guilds that do 10 man pretty regularly are probably beefing up their numbers for 25 man. That's probably your best bet; you could go with a more experienced tank on your first run your two with their second squad and transition into taking it over, if that's your thing.

For some reason, in a lot of groups and guilds, people expect the tank to kind of run the show; while this is usually more visibly true in 5 mans, the mentality tends to carry over.

Durandro
01-22-2009, 03:52 PM
Alright, update. Did my first Naxx 10 Raid, half PUG'ed (i.e. was with a friendly guild, but we needed to pug a few more people). I was made MT and Raid Leader based on my confident manner (I failed to tell any of them I'd actually not done it before - and no-one knew any better).

It went quite well. We wiped on Anub'rekhan twice due to his Insect Swarm silencing the healers (who were standing too close), but also it seemed to be bugged and kept counting down to 3 seconds then jumping back to 8 seconds (is that normal? If so, how do I deal with that>). 3rd run I died, and the OT grabbed him and the adds, and just stood there and took the Swarm. Amazingly we downed him, and both the tanking and caster rings dropped (neither me or my Priest friend won, but the tanking ring went to the OT, which I think he deserved anyway).

Faerlina went down first time due to perfect DPS coordination. I was suprised how easily she was killed, and how well everyone did their jobs. I didn't even need to use Raid Warnings to tell them to nuke the Worshippers.

Lastly, Maexxna. Wiped three times, all due to not cleansing the poison quickly enough (we only had a Paladin able to do it, and he wasn't quick enough). Then we called it a night, and we'll try again tomorrow.

I'm glad I finally got my nose into Raiding, and that I actually have what it takes to lead a Raid (especially one that's not even my own Guild!).

Oh, and updated gear. I now have the Emblem reward Belt, and I've replaced most of my gems with 'more useful' ones. And got Armsman on my gloves.

One last thing, how much Hit Rating and Expertise do I really need?

Thulldar
01-23-2009, 06:34 AM
Best way to solve your problem is to stack stamina. It won't make you a better tank, necessarily, but all pugs know to look for is the tank's HP, which they wrongly assume is directly tied to the quality of his or her gear. Get 540 defense, and then replace all your gems / enchants with stamina equivalents. Get stamina trinkets (H AN trinket and engineering crafted sonic booster are probably best for you).

Its an ugly solution, but back when my warrior was my alt and everybody was in BT gear, it got me into Kara / ZA runs when I was having the same problem.

Oh, and don't worry about hit rating and expertise for now. They increase your damage and threat, but threat isn't a problem, and damage is less important than getting the pieces you need right now to survive in raids. Focus on HP and avoidance until you're farming Naxx and are comfortable with your healers.

Finally, don't give up hope. Sounds like you're doing your homework and making a strong effort to be a good tank. The pugs that aren't taking you are making a mistake.

CyCy
01-23-2009, 07:19 AM
Servers down so cant see your armory, but from a tank that plays opposite raid times of my guild all I can say is pug heroics for emblems and drops. Vicariously you will build a reputation for being a good tank and w/o much work you'll be sitting at enough hp to MT any raid.

Case in point I was asked to OT a vault run IM at like 24800 in 540 gear and the MT was at 30 difference was his crap was all crafted epics and boe AH junk.(firm believer in earn it don't buy it). Well we still needed dps and heals and everyone was complaining cause they had been lfm for 30 mins. One spam by me and we filled a 25man instead and the MT was told to put on dps gear and be OT.

So just keep at it you'll soon be a sought after tank if you want to be.

Tierax
01-23-2009, 07:48 AM
Insect Swarm silencing the healers (who were standing too close), but also it seemed to be bugged and kept counting down to 3 seconds then jumping back to 8 seconds (is that normal? If so, how do I deal with that>).

Swarm stacks and resets its countdown timer every time it does. You probably just picked up another stack; best way to deal with that is run away faster. :)

Tialis
01-23-2009, 08:04 AM
I'm curious, but just because you start the raid, why do you feel you would have to MT it? Try to hook up with one of the more experienced tanks on your server, see which ones are doing the PUG thing now, and get them to MT it. Personally, I love it when someone else is willing to organize the event, and I get to just come in and do my thing. Many Naxx fights use multiple tanks, so you will get lots of experience as well.

Peca
01-23-2009, 08:37 AM
First you need to find guild,casual one.I see that you try as freelancer,but pugs are not the way to be raid tank.Not all pve guilds are hardcore,some of them raiding 2 days in week,or less.Why guild ,cause that way you will have ppl who knows your gear ,and can be patient and help you with getting new gear.I started just like you.I read all on tankspot and other forums about tanking.But my guild was pvp not pve,but they helped me when they had time.So I did lots of pugs,and I have some bad memories :D.Many times I didnt have group cause they say "sry you dont have epics" and they took tak with some insane spec,and some stupid enchants ,but he had epics.Pugs want fast runs and loot.So you must take that as normal.But dont give up.Tankig is something great,I never regret that I become tank (i was pvp arms speced).Gl m8 :)