PDA

View Full Version : Yet Another 25 Man Patchwerk Thread



Verize
01-17-2009, 12:34 AM
Hey everyone.

Sorry about a thread of the same boss.

I've recently managed to get myself into a PUG 25 man Naxx. We one shot all the bosses in the Spider and Plague Wings until we tried Patchwerk.

For some reason the tanks just kept dying.

I'm not sure if it's a healer or a tank issue or a little bit of both, but for my part I'm concerned on whether I am geared sufficiently to take him either as a MT or as a Hateful Soaker.

WoW Armory - Light: Verize (http://www.armory-light.com/us/Proudmoore/Verize)

That's my current gear. I'd appreciate it if you guys could give me pointers on anything I can do to make Patchwerk easier.

Note that I don't have a regular raid group and most of the gear available to me are EoH and Heroic gear.

Also, as buffs go I make sure to have an Indestructible Pot, Elixir of Major Agility and the Expertise food on me.

Thanks very much.

Amelmil
01-17-2009, 01:15 AM
If tanks keeps dying, its almost always the healer's fault unless the tank just hit lvl 80 and has only 20k health unbuffed. On this fight, healers must spam heal all the time and never stop casting.

Verize
01-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Mmm...Let's put it this way then.

Since I'm a Warrior and not a Druid, is Patchwerk a fight where I should be stacking Avoidance over EH?

Bokeh
01-19-2009, 06:15 AM
EH as an OT, just regular tanking gear as MT. Expertise is not an issue on patchwerk since he doesn't have a parry haste, go for agi/stam food. Your gear seems more than sufficient to either MT or OT him.

What kind of healer setup do you run with usually? It might be handy to have certain healers focusing on certain tanks, and keep in mind that OT2 will only take damage if OT1 isn't healed up fast enough. It might be happening that OT1 isn't healed up straightaway, OT2 takes damage, healers panic and start healing OT2, OT1 dies. If healers have an issue keeping the tanks up purely because they can't output enough hps get a mage to amp all the tanks.

Get your worst geared tank to MT him and your best geared tanks to OT him, since the MT takes relatively little damage.

And lastly, do you have a wowwebstats for the runs where you wipe, that might make it easier to analyze what goes wrong.

Verize
01-19-2009, 12:54 PM
Thanks Bokeh.

The previous PUG had 6 healers. 2 Priests, 2 Druids, 2 Paladins - which seems perfectly fine to me.

The MT was soloed healed by the best Priest. Each of the OTs got a Druid and Pally each. The last Priest was assigned to top up anyone.

I also remember that on one of the wipes, I was Hateful Striked twice within 2 seconds (Probably less than that since the in game combat log timestamps are not precise enough). This would seem that I took 2 consecutive Hatefuls that Patchwerk dealt out, perhaps implying that the healers were not on the ball?

Unfortunately, I did not save the combat log for a WWS - will do so the next run to see what happens.

Thanks for your help again. I'm pretty glad to hear that my gear is reasonable for 25 man Patch.

austaz
01-19-2009, 01:41 PM
Are the melee in your group dipping into the slime before you pull patchwerk? Some groups do this so the melee will always be at a lower health than the OT's and therefor will not be taking the strikes. In this case you may also be restricting your healers in their use of AOE heals or on proc heals that accidentally heal the melee.

If your having healing problems I would recommend having the melee not do this and keep full health, this is rough on the melee but they become "hatefull strike tank savers ....". If the OT's are both under about 20K health when the next hatefull strike comes in it will one shot a melee instead of an OT (if he had failed to dodge/parry). So in effect you are trading one melee death against the 30%-40% chance that a tank would not avoid the blow.

I have used this on a few groups that had healing trouble and it works well, the number of melee dead at the end = the amount of times the healers were not able to get the OT's back up in health in time, but pachwerk is still dead :)

Krete
01-19-2009, 03:30 PM
Please, no one should step into the slime.

From EJ forums:

Source (http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t31964-wotlk_naxxramas/p19/#475)


The amount of misinformation surrounding hateful strike is amazing, even after 30+ months of original Naxx release.

There are only two viable targets for hateful strike, and these are the two people 2nd and 3rd on his aggro list within melee range. Hateful strike will hit the highest HP person out of those 2. Additionally, hateful strike will add threat to the target it hits, which helps keep these tanks on that hateful strike list. This is the reason where if your 2 hateful tanks are low hp, he would still hateful one of them and kill them, disregarding the fact that there were melee dps with higher HP.

Typically, the threat added by getting hit by a HS is more than enough to maintain these tanks on the hateful list, however there were occasions where tanks dropped off the list due melee dps pushing more threat than what HS gave your offtanks, but that was only seen during times where you'd run the old Naxx with level 70 people.

Sinking your melee into the slime doesn't help anyone, it's just stupid and you should quit doing it.

Giggitygigs
01-22-2009, 09:00 AM
If the OT's are both under about 20K health when the next hatefull strike comes in it will one shot a melee instead of an OT (if he had failed to dodge/parry). This is wrong information. If the OT will only get passed up on being hit if he is not in the right range of threat. It picks the highest HP of the 2nd and 3rd in threat and will not go beyond that. If your melee is getting killed before the OT's it means they are passing them in threat(which is extremely easy to do if the 3rd tank isn't taking as many hatefuls due to 2nd tank being topped off.)

We use a "2 and 2" strategy for our melee on patch. 2 tanks go in, wait for 2 hatefuls(to LAND so they have the threat from them) and then melee goes in. As soon as melee goes in we pop heroism.

Esch
01-22-2009, 11:20 AM
If tanks keeps dying, its almost always the healer's fault unless the tank just hit lvl 80 and has only 20k health unbuffed. On this fight, healers must spam heal all the time and never stop casting.

Mercy, please, my eyes.

Healing is intensive, but there is a huge responsibility on the Hateful tanks to avoid/mitigate the damage. The less times your hit, and the less damage per hit, means more time for the healers to get you. My deaths on Patchwerk were a 31k one shot (I was undergeared) and combinations of multiple 25k hits landing faster than healers could top off.

Any amount of healing can keep someone alive (Bloodboil in BT, anyone?), but it's a lot easier to heal someone who is geared & actively preventing 'unnecessary' damage.

Vapes
01-27-2009, 01:14 PM
If the OT's are both under about 20K health when the next hatefull strike comes in it will one shot a melee instead of an OT (if he had failed to dodge/parry).

I think the misconception is that generally it's hard to take 2 hits without heals between, regardless of gear so you're dependant on the healer, healing you up to full each time, but this isn't really accurate.

If I'm getting hit for 20k every time and I have 21k HP, it takes a 20k heals for me to live on the next one, but if I have 35k it only takes 5-6k heals for me to live through the next one. Over time the heals even out, but this creates a larger buffer for the heals to come through, you can get 5k between one, and 25k between the next. Also by having a larger buffer you're reducing the potential for wasted (over) heals.

I've certainly seen a tank get topped off and overhealed for about 10k, then take 2 hits in a row and die because all heals landed right before one. Sure you can blame healer rotation, but tank gear is definitely very important.

Squashed
01-27-2009, 01:35 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a burning question regarding hateful tanking. As a geared warrior tank, 30khp, 24k armor, 25/20/20 d/p/b in my gear right now, should my Patchwerk set be for EH (lots of armor and stamina) or should it be for health and avoidance?

In a health set I could likely approach 40k fully raid buffed, but 2 hatefuls in a row would still kill me. I don't know what my dodge/parry/miss would approach in my avoidance gear, I'm really on the fence with this one. I can't determine what would be better, guaranteed more buffer for heals to come through (EH set) or better CHANCE (RNG!!) to dodge the second that would kill me.

Thoughts? What do YOU do?

Cycho
01-27-2009, 11:42 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but I have a burning question regarding hateful tanking. As a geared warrior tank, 30khp, 24k armor, 25/20/20 d/p/b in my gear right now, should my Patchwerk set be for EH (lots of armor and stamina) or should it be for health and avoidance?

In a health set I could likely approach 40k fully raid buffed, but 2 hatefuls in a row would still kill me. I don't know what my dodge/parry/miss would approach in my avoidance gear, I'm really on the fence with this one. I can't determine what would be better, guaranteed more buffer for heals to come through (EH set) or better CHANCE (RNG!!) to dodge the second that would kill me.

Thoughts? What do YOU do?


Balance my friend. fully raid buffed you will be fine at 35k HP. make sure to stay def capped and fill in the gaps...I.E. parry dodge and block. Always keep that shield block up. (been awhile since i have played my warrior. but, I think it is still there).



And as for the questions about Patch.....MT and 1 OT.....wait 5 sec then blow him up melee. Too many OT's and your healers are gonna lose their minds trying to keep yall up. Also try to use a pally tank or DK for the OT. A class that doesnt need rage to build threat. And for the warrior OT's. Pump it out and dont waste your rage on things like commanding shout....

Giggitygigs
01-28-2009, 07:29 AM
And as for the questions about Patch.....MT and 1 OT.....wait 5 sec then blow him up melee. Too many OT's and your healers are gonna lose their minds trying to keep yall up. Also try to use a pally tank or DK for the OT. A class that doesnt need rage to build threat. And for the warrior OT's. Pump it out and dont waste your rage on things like commanding shout....
Rage isn't a problem either MTing or OTing on patch. There is usually enough incoming damage to keep you full up. That said, we use a druid for soaking hatefuls as they mitigate the damage the best.(Also because we only have warrior and druid tanks)