View Full Version : DK Avoidance vs Stamina
01-12-2009, 05:05 PM
As a death knight, I've reached the point where I'm effectively geared from Heroics (one or two small upgrades possible) and am looking at gear / enchant / gem choices for tanking 10 and 25 man raids. For 10 man I think my gear and spec is fine how it is, but I'm not sure how to proceed from here. More hp? More avoidance? More strength (avoidance and tps)?
I really don't know. Generally I'm treating Stam > Dodge > Parry > Hit / Expertise, always while keeping at 540 defense, of course. What stats should I focus on increasing from here on out? Gear upgrades are fairly straightforward for the most part, I'm mainly wondering what to gem / enchant for when I am def capped. Specifically, when 3.0.8 hits, how do all you experts think 75 stam, +4% parry, and +25 defense (skill) stack up against each other?
Your gear looks pretty good like you said, hero's and rep rewards. I would say get the BoE shoulders that drop in CoT Strat and your ready for 10 and 25 mans.
As far as upgrades go.
Stam = Def = Dodge > Exp/Hit > Str >>>>> Parry (IE, never look for parry, ever. If it comes on a gear slot, great, if it doesnt great)
Your spec is a bit wonky, Descration is crap if your not putting 5/5 in it and its still crap then because you should be using the glyph of SS which means your barely ever PS. Also, no morbity or reaping??? Death runes = more SS = more threat.
you can check my Armory for the a spec that is focused on threat/DPS. Ignore the ghoul talents as I was speced for an 8 man naxx run and trying to squeeze out more DPS. Until the patch, ghouls just fail at raiding.
01-13-2009, 04:45 PM
I find I need my blood runes for Pestilence and blood boil to hold AE threat, and when I have Reaping I end up accidentally using them in a SS and not being able to renew group diseases with Pestilence.
I'm dancing back and forth on Morbidity, I rarely death coil and have almost never found myself wishing DnD was off cooldown sooner.
However, I can see both these things (Death coil, AE threat needs) changing as I start MTing more big raid bosses, as single target threat is much more of an issue there than it is in heroics. but then, I will probably go Frost in 3.0.8, so all these issues may become moot pretty soon. The points are in desecration basically for lack of anywhere else to put them, given how I felt about Morbidity / Reaping.
Thinking about something like this:
Unholy Tank Build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=005502000000000000000000000305000 00000000000000000000002352000050031152500012031031 51)
I'm still not sold on Reaping, though. I use Pestilence every time its up in AE situations (nearly all situations outside MTing raid bosses), so that's one blood rune accounted for, and Blood Boil comes in handy for that little extra AoE threat when DnD is off cooldown and new mobs are jumping into a fight. Without Reaping, I could have two points in Two-Handed Specialization and Gargoyle.
Thanks alot for the input, especially as I had somehow never heard of the Scourge Strike glyph. I will probably respec as I replace my blues and start hitting Naxx hard. Anyone who wants to add more to this is more than welcome to, I can use all the opinions I can get. People seem to either know everything about DK tanking and thus not talk, or know nothing and talk incessantly. Great to hear from people who, ya know, have actually done it =D
02-01-2009, 08:53 PM
I'm a pretty dedicated Frost tank. So as far as any suggestions on your Unholy Tank spec, my response would be mediocre at best. I do understand all tree's and have tested them quite a bit. But more often then not, it all comes down to personal play style.
On your spec: I would drop BCB, as it's used to increase your white dmg output and more of a DW talent. I would put those points into Ravenous Dead (because it scales really nicely w/ great gear.) and consider dropping Necrosis in favor of Virulence (3% spell hit is hard to pass up considering most of your dmg is spell dmg.) and the remaining 2 pts maybe into On a Pale Horse (20% Stun/Fear reduction, 'nough said).
As far as swapping to Frost, my area of expertise, I still have some actual testing to do since patch came out, but a good start would be my pre-patch spec 12/52/7 (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=005502000000000000000000000325050 51300321123012001313500052000000000000000000000000 00)
A lot of surviveability and single target threat w/ decent AoE threat for trash.
Rotation for Single Target: PS, IT, BS, BS, Oblit, Oblit, BS, BS, Oblit, Oblit (throwing in FS as a RP dump. Also I have RS macro'd to just about every Hot Key so there is no need for me to concentrate on hitting it every time it comes up.)
AoE: IT, Pestilence, Death Chill, HB, Blood Boil (usually mobs are all dead by the blood boil from all the AoE's from the DPS)
This week however, I will be experimenting w/ a psuedo HB build (would go w/ a full HB if the CD was removed completely, but I can live w/ 5 sec CD) 13/50/8 (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=005502100000000000000000000325050 01305320023010051013500050300000000000000000000000 00)
I'll let you know how it turns out. I have given up my Spell Dmg reduction (because it is situational) in favor of BOTN (Death Runes = more Obliterates/HB) and dropped Imp Icy Talons in favor of Killing Machine. Lessened my rotation time (removal of Epidemic) so I have to cast IT more often, which will result in more Rime Procs and thus more free HB.
Now regarding the original question posted by you Gravehound; Avoidance vs. Stamina. Personally I stack Avoidance as much as I can. I find I would rather dodge/parry those incoming 10k-14k hits then relying on extra stam to soak it up. But you can't neglect Stam and Exp/Hit. Finding a Balance between the 4 is probably the toughest job you have.
Now for Glyphs; currently mine are set for pre-patch (been a little lazy). Had D&D for the fear affect (which has been removed, but the extra dmg+threat is kinda nice). Obliterate (A MUST if you plan on using Obliterate to any great extent) and Ice Bound Fortitude (being able to hit an O-Crap button at whim is very handy). I will probably swap out D&D for Glyph for Unbreakable Armor or maybe Glyph of Rune Tap. undecided at this point.
So..lol. I'm a DK Tank that knows quite a lot (I wouldn't say everything) and has decided to talk incessantly regarding the subject.
Feel free to Armory me:
80 Human Death Knight
02-05-2009, 11:32 PM
and consider dropping Necrosis in favor of Virulence (3% spell hit is hard to pass up considering most of your dmg is spell dmg.) and the remaining 2 pts maybe into On a Pale Horse (20% Stun/Fear reduction, 'nough said).
Definitely don't drop Necrosis, while it used to be a pretty sad DPS talent, it's a fantastic tanking talent due to its synergy with Rune Strike, and was doubled in the patch. BCB definitely dump though, it adds little to a tank's dps and it causes extra parries.