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Dreg
01-11-2009, 04:55 AM
Table of Contents:
I.Introduction
II.Downsides
III.Benefits
IV.General information
V.FAQ

I. Introduction
The build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAM00fZhbZMItrx0zidIzsGo)


The primary focus of this build is to get to Deep Wounds in the Arms tree, while maintaining optimal survivability. There are many other talent builds to be considered depending on what you raid needs. This build is meant for when you feel comfortable with current content. You are surviving and holding threat, this will buff your damage and also your threat however the main goal is to increase damage.

II. Downsides:


The biggest issue most traditional tanks see with this build is loosing 3 points of Shield Specialization, this what usually is the point that people dislike the most about this build. However at which point you feel you can easily survive most content, 3% block is very little in terms of gear and wont do much vs 28k Hateful strikes.
Puncture loosing 3 rage off of devastate is inconvenient but you pick up imp heroic strike instead which will save you a lot more rage in any circumstance.
Lastly you loose 3 points of cruelty, this goes against commonsense in respect to trying to get deep wounds to proc off of your critical hits. I will cover this later.


III. Benefits:

Obviously the first benefit is deep wounds, averaged out this alone provides a 5-12% increase in damage from the tank. I personally see 5% minimum and with a feral druid or arms warrior upwards of 8% or 9%.
Aoe threat easily one of the bigger benefits, everything procs deep wounds so when you thunderclap or even damage shield procs and it criticals, it will apply deep wounds to that target.
Increased damage output, 20% more critical damage and deep wounds is a considerable amount when it comes to a boss fight.
Improved heroic strike, in an optimal fight your going to have heroic strike cued for every swing of your sword, so if you can save rage here it will do a lot more than puncture would.


IV. General Information:
Critical strike chance:
The important thing to remember is your raid buffed critical chance not unbuffed, 5% base + 5% aura(druid or fury warrior) + 3% ret pally/rogue/shaman + 2% from cruelty (if you take it) and lastly 15% to all cool downs except revenge. So under normal raid circumstances you have a minimum of ~30% chance with most attacks. This does not include any agility bonuses or kings.

Slow weapon VS Fast weapon: Single target (info taken from Zapp @ tankspot.com)


Comparing a 1.6 and 2.4 one handed weapon at 367 white DPS. (My current white DPS on armory) with a 12% crit and all the +15% crit talents (making mostly everything 27% crit).

Deep Wounds
[1.6]367 * 1.6 = 587 * .48 = 282 damage over 6 seconds for every application
[2.4]367 * 2.4 = 880 * .48 = 422 damage over 6 seconds for every application

Formula being used is
Damage added when crit * chance to crit / frequency of use = total DPS

1.6 Speed Weapon
Assuming 12% crit rate against 2.4 speed single target boss(for damage shield)
282 * .12 / 2.4 = 14 Damage shield
282 * .27 / 1.6 = 48 Auto Attack(with HS)
282 * .27 / 6 = 12 Shield Slam
282 * .12 / 6 = 5 Revenge
282 * .27 / 6 = 12 Devastate
282 * .27 / 12 = 6 Thunderclap
282 * .12 / 12 = 3 concblow/shockwave
total Increase: 86(+14 if damage shield works)

2.4 Speed Weapon
Assuming 12% crit rate against 2.4 speed single target boss(for damage shield)
422 * .12 / 2.4 = 21 Damage shield
422 * .27 / 2.4 = 47 Auto Attack(with HS)
422 * .27 / 6 = 19 Shield Slam
422 * .12 / 6 = 8 Revenge
422 * .27 / 6 = 19 Devastate
422 * .27 / 12 = 9 Thunderclap
422 * .12 / 12 = 4 concblow/shockwave
Total increase: 106(+21 if damage shield works)

2.4 wins by 20 DPS (Interesting enough, without rolling it actually won by more, 23 DPS to be exact(3 more). Odd huh? Turns out the faster weapon speed is actually better for the auto attacks with HS crit bonus from incite!)

Heroic Strike
[1.6](495 / 1.6 = 309(.64)=198 DPS) + (259 / 1.6 = 162 TPS) = 360 TPS
[2.4](495 / 2.4 = 206(.64)=132 DPS) + (259 / 2.4 = 107 TPS) = 239 TPS

1.6 wins by 66 DPS and 121 TPS(including from damage)

Devastate
[1.6]587 * .5 293.5 or 49(*.64)=31 DPS (assuming once every 6 seconds)
[2.4]880 * .5 440 or 73(*.64)=47 DPS

2.4 wins by 16 DPS

Threat Outcome:
[1.6]86 + 360 + 31 = 477
[2.4]106 + 239 + 47 = 392
1.6 wins by 91 Threat Per Second

DPS Outcome:
[1.6]86 + 198 + 31 = 315
[2.4]106 + 132 + 47 = 285
1.6 wins by 56 Damage Per Second

V. FAQ:

Q: Is the build worth it dropping 3 points in shield specialization is a lot?
A: That is up for you to decide, this is not the only build available.

Q: Specing for damage and threat, aren't I just supposed to live?
A: With 3.0 and WotLK things changed a bit.
Before patch 3.0 a tank had 2 jobs:
1. Stay alive
2. Hold Threat

It does no good to raid if you cannot do both of those things successfully.

After patch 3.0 a tank now has 3 jobs:
1. Stay alive
2. Hold threat
3. Do respectable damage.

Q: What other builds are there?
A: That is not the purpose of this guide.

Q: What about the patch? With 3.08 Deep Wounds will be getting nerfed!
A: There is not enough information to make a call right now, however blizzard has referenced that they are keeping protection warriors in mind with this change.

Q: So you're saying I can do at least 10% more damage if not even more at the cost of 3% block.
A: Yup.

Q: People keep telling me this is the only build that any one should use, am I bad?
A: Not at all, there are many different builds that are better for different situations. Many tanks have tested different builds, and found they like this one the most. That does not mean its the only one out there, give it a try you never know.

Q: I just hit 80, is this spec good for me?
A: That is a hard question, with the lack of gear you may want to go for a build with more mitigation. Again it is up to you.

Q: 12/5/53 is this build good?
A: sure, if you want to drop the 3 points from deep wounds and fill shield specialization the spec will still work. Your loosing some aoe threat and about 5-9% damage by doing it though.

Q: What is the ideal threat rotation with this build?
A: Nothing changes from a normal tanking rotation. Here is what that rotation is for single target ideal threat. http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9209/warriorthreatrotation2td0.png



This is a work in progress, if I have missed anything please feel free to point it out.

Information I would like to get:

crit % at which DWs is not longer viable
How much damage is gained from impale

JackDanielz
01-11-2009, 06:37 AM
Impale should increase the damage of your abilities by 4.6% (at 30% crit: (0.7*1+0.3*2.2)/(0.7*1+0.3*2)=1.0461)

With infinite rage every swing is a HS - in that case it increases your total damage by 4.6%

Morgo
01-11-2009, 06:47 AM
I went as far as dropping the 2 points from shield spec in bloodrage, there was only one fight in the game where I regretted it: tanking all the flame spawns and whelps on sarth+3 adds, since I get hit by so friggin many mobs that all hit for less or around my block value. But, as with specs in general... spec for the fight, and with most of my time in game spend during heroics or clearing trash in raids, really like the extra rage on demand, when I need it the most.

jeesuusa
01-11-2009, 06:50 AM
I use this build and never have i come accross a situation where im taking more damage then i need to even in sarth so for me anyway i find it an invauluable build

Kazeyonoma
01-12-2009, 12:48 PM
nice guide dreg.

Daimon
01-14-2009, 12:03 PM
what about using 2 points in imp rend instead of imp charge? i was noting 240ish per tick below 75%. idk if it can crit but at some point it was over 330. It worth the lost of 10 rage? I think it does, but correct me if i'm wrong.

Icosiol
01-16-2009, 03:50 PM
I use this spec but with a 3pt change. I keep the 3 pts in Shield Specialization, and don't use any in Focused Rage. I can still have the DW, plus the Shield Specialization for the 3% mitigation and I'm never rage starved because of the cost of my abilities. It's the best of both worlds. :cool:

blahism
01-16-2009, 04:58 PM
What is your average DPS using this build and rotation? I can't seem to exceed about 1.2k dps but i haven't really tried my new spec against a boss where i don't have to watch for healers, adds or popping something else off mid stream (shouts and whatnot)

Kataztrophe
01-16-2009, 09:15 PM
I use Deep Wounds except for when my guild is doing Sarth 3D attempts. I'd rather have imp spell reflect when 25k fire bursts are serious business. 4% resist isnt much, but the fight is pretty long, and threat is not an issue if you're MT'ing Sarth.

Dreg
01-16-2009, 09:20 PM
what about using 2 points in imp rend instead of imp charge? i was noting 240ish per tick below 75%. idk if it can crit but at some point it was over 330. It worth the lost of 10 rage? I think it does, but correct me if i'm wrong.

rend is more damage, but less threat and devistate, even if tallented. i highly prefer the rage from charge as its where you get your rage to start the pull with.


What is your average DPS using this build and rotation? I can't seem to exceed about 1.2k dps but i haven't really tried my new spec against a boss where i don't have to watch for healers, adds or popping something else off mid stream (shouts and whatnot)

thats not something i wanted to give numbers on as individual results HIGHLY very, not because of the spec, but because of playstyle and gear. however i average 1600-1900 dps.

Dreg
01-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Impale should increase the damage of your abilities by 4.6% (at 30% crit: (0.7*1+0.3*2.2)/(0.7*1+0.3*2)=1.0461)

With infinite rage every swing is a HS - in that case it increases your total damage by 4.6%

could i get any one else to confirm this, not that i don't trust you but i don't know where you're getting some of your numbers or what they even mean.

blahism
01-17-2009, 09:07 AM
thats not something i wanted to give numbers on as individual results HIGHLY very, not because of the spec, but because of playstyle and gear. however i average 1600-1900 dps.

Reason i ask is outside of theorycrafting and showing unlimited rage scenerios or bosses where you're buffed you would think by reading tankspot that you have to have 2.5k dps or your not doing your job.

If you have a moment, check out my armory and lemme know what you think. Its linked in my profile

Dreg
01-17-2009, 09:33 AM
Impale increases crit damage by 20% from 2.0 modifier to 2.2. So crit damage from all abilities is multiplied with new 2.2 modifier.

Critical damage increase: %crit * (extra damage)
30% crit: 30% * 1.0 = 0.3
30% crit w/ Impale: 30% * 1.2 = 0.36 (1.2 is from 1.0 + 0.2)
Impale crit damage increase: 0.36 / 0.3 = 0.2 or 20%
Impale overall damage increase: 1.36 / 1.3 (+1 from normal dmg) = 1.046154

Now the question is whether the threat is also multiplied by 2.2 instead of 2.0 when a tank has this talent.
thank you =)


Reason i ask is outside of theorycrafting and showing unlimited rage scenerios or bosses where you're buffed you would think by reading tankspot that you have to have 2.5k dps or your not doing your job.

If you have a moment, check out my armory and lemme know what you think. Its linked in my profile

you notice i said average, with trash and everything else. tank and spank bosses or ones with gimmicks are easy to out damage your average. btw, as for the not doing your job comment as long as you hold agro and don't die im pretty sure any guild will be fine with you. that being said this build WILL do more dps than a traditional tanking build.

JoeFins
04-17-2009, 10:10 PM
My current build is 5/8/58. I just started running Naxx. Would it be a good idea for me to worry about damage at this point? Or wait till I'm a little better geared?
I have to admit that after I saw the build I thought it was nuts but not sure now.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Okay, since Dual spec I now have 2 Prot builds. One as recommended here and my old spec slightly tweaked. Gonna try em both out and get a good comparison anyway. Still would like to know if I should be worrying about dps just getting started in Naxx or not. Thanks again.