View Full Version : Major Glyphs
01-09-2009, 06:33 AM
So I've been using block/cleave/revenge lately and I got kind of curious about using devastate and heroic strike.
heroic strike depends on a chance to crit to actually work so that means you have a chance to have it work so thats why i didnt choose that one
Devastate puts up 2 sunders per dev which is good. except you don't get any threat from sunder after 5 sunders are up (correct me if im wrong). so hypothetically at the beginning of a fight any warrior could help me get sunders up and save myself a glyph spot.
cleave with the changes or even without the changes allow multitanking which was one of the downfalls being a warrior. i always remember being annoyed in hyjal because a paladin multi tanked easier but things have been more balanced and anyone can tank anything and i think cleave glyph helps with the balance especially.
So i guess my main questions are: should i change my glyphs and is what i said about dev true? that it just puts sunders up faster. it doesnt give you more threat. it may give you more threat upfront like say if you tab deving trash mobs but not in a longer battle
thanks for the help
01-09-2009, 03:00 PM
devastate is proving quite useful to me, not only does it increase the speed of dps slowly, but it applies more threat because of the double sunder effect. I'm finding it more useful then glyph of heroic strike so now i'm using block/revenge/devastate.
01-09-2009, 04:45 PM
but the threat increase stops after 5sunders correct?
01-09-2009, 04:53 PM
but the threat increase stops after 5sunders correct?
I'm pretty sure you get threat each time you use it, regardless of a 5 stack or not.
01-09-2009, 04:58 PM
Devastate itself got changed. It no longer gives threat for applying a sunder armor debuff.
So Devastate's threat is constant from the first application to the last. So in that sense it always doubles threat.
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/39775-wow-3-0-threat-values.html I'm going off Satrina's work and assuming I can still read (dangerous assumption since I finished school).
01-09-2009, 05:22 PM
ahh hmm so the only point of dev glyph is to get sunders up faster? another warrior could just help me do that---
01-09-2009, 08:14 PM
The sunder armor ability all warriors get certainly gives you threat after the first 5, otherwise no one would have gotten past MC. However, Devastate does not grant the threat from the sunder effect in the first place, so 2x0=0 bonus threat. You're correct that it only helps you stack sunders faster.
01-09-2009, 09:44 PM
Uh. That is incorrect. Devastate gains bonus threat from the sunder applications. And you do get extra bonus threat from the glyph. See http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/43175-glyph-devastate-double-check-me.html
01-09-2009, 09:53 PM
Uh. That is incorrect. Devastate gains bonus threat from the sunder applications.
Bonus threat comes via the bonus damage (+101 per sunder stack at 80) now, rather than an innate threat value as it did in WoW 2.x. There is still an innate threat component which is equal to 5% of your attack power, this is applied to all applications of Devastate as well.
01-09-2009, 09:56 PM
Hmm. Is that right? The impression I got from the other thread was that there's also the 5% AP threat component from Sunder Armor involved, and that applies even when no new sunder goes on (and doubly so with the glyph.) That's... *sort* of an innate threat component.
01-09-2009, 10:00 PM
The 5% AP is common to Sunder and Devastate both, but is not influenced by the number of sunders on the target. Sunder gives you a flat 345 + 5%AP, whereas Devastate gives you 1/2 weapon damage + 101*sunderstack + 5% AP (the damage component is of course subject to mitigation). The only bonus you get from sunder stacks is from the 101 damage per stack.
Edit: As for the glyph double dipping, I haven't had a chance to confirm that myself yet. I should do that. I suspect that it's a bug.
01-09-2009, 10:13 PM
hmm so in conclusion glyph of dev is for getting threat via the minus armor not the actual threat generation of the move? so basically if someone else sunders for me i wouldnt need this glyph yeah?
01-09-2009, 10:16 PM
Well, the glyph *does* appear to net you 10% AP instead of 5% AP (regardless of whether that other 5% is coming from the sunder or what) as mentioned in the thread I linked--it also has the benefit of getting sunders up faster. I recently switched to it to see if it would do well for boosting my threat output when OTing and in AoE situations (damned prot pallies and death knights stealing my rage!), and it appears to make it slightly easier to stick stuff to me in the AoE packs, at the very least. I'm still a little up in the air on the OT situation, but I do think that it's generally a very effective tool for any kind of low-rage situation.
01-09-2009, 10:17 PM
Well stacking sunders faster gives us more time to worry about DPS i suppose....I should get rid of Glyph of Rapid Charging lol
01-09-2009, 10:21 PM
hmm i may drop cleave for dev but still kinda on the fence :/
01-10-2009, 12:18 AM
The last tests I heard showed that devastate's glyph only double dips on the AP % threat so instead of damage + 5% ap you gain damage + 10% ap which would be a very very slight gain.
Never got around to trying it myself. I'm still a big fan of Revenge + Blocking + HS or Revenge + Blocking + Sunder and with the patch possibly Revenge + Blocking + Cleave. I still wish there was a glyph that really helped our aoe threat instead of a tiny bandage to small aoe situations with no help to large aoe situations.
01-12-2009, 03:46 AM
I'm using revenge + blocking + sunder. I haven't tanked at 80 without these. I doubt that the revenge glyph would make much difference on bosses, but it would likely help enough on trash that I might notice it. I expect that the blocking glyph makes a measurable difference on core stuff, and without doing the numbers I'd suspect that it's the one glyph most likely to be essential on progression stuff.
I've been thinking about the last glyph a bit. I often end up grabbing tons of stuff, which dies quickly, and the sunder glyph can't have any measurable effect there. I haven't noticed much trouble when tanking two or three things but doubt I'd have any without the glyph.
On the other hand, I can imagine wiping a 25-man raid due to a taunt failure (on for example 4H when switching the front mobs, or probably much more freakishly on Gluth), seeing as I'm nowhere near hit capped. Anyone else have strong feelings about the taunt glyph (or the idea of not running hit capped for that matter)?
01-12-2009, 04:52 AM
block is a must and probably truly the only must since basically on bosses you are full of rage so revenge isn't really need. dev isn't really needed since other warriors can help you put up sunders. so i guess its whatever you want. i happen to like block revenege and cleave for the ability to multitank and get a little bit more threat on rageless situations
01-12-2009, 05:59 AM
Interesting topic! Currently I'm using:
Glyph of Blocking - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43425)
Glyph of Revenge - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43424)
Glyph of Heroic Strike - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43418)
Glyph of Bloodrage - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43396)
Glyph of Thunder Clap - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43399)
Glyph of Charge - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43397).
I've been wondering if these are the best choices or if i should change them. But having a hard time finding correct information about the working, the pre's and cons. Been reading the mathematical calculations about the HS vs. Devastate, but I have to admit, math is not my strongest point :p
01-12-2009, 03:19 PM
im using the exact minors. as for majors i think for aoe tanking cleave and dev are based on your preference. i prefer cleave since dev only gets sunders up quicker and if youre in an infinite rage situaton heroic strike and revenge glyphs serve no purpose.
01-12-2009, 05:29 PM
I have favored cleave as well, since I spam it every cycle in multiple mob situations.
The 3.0.8 cleave glyph adds an extra target to cleave, instead of the 5 rage discount. That should be pretty nice.
The devastate glyph doesn't appeal now that devastate is such an unimportant part of my rotation. And the heroic strike glyph is useless if you don't have enough rage to HS in the first place and useless if you have infinite rage.
01-12-2009, 05:30 PM