View Full Version : Dealing With 10-Man Friends..?

01-08-2009, 07:46 AM
So, not sure if that was the right kind of title, but I'm kind lost right now.

So, last night was my guilds first naxx run. And we ran into a lot of problems, on the first boss, Anub'rekhan. We only had about a few attempts before instance server crashed, and we decided to take that as a sign and come back friday.

So, my issue isn't strat, its with the people that signed up. First of all, the "common" problem, which is so much melee. Our group make-up:

1 Warrior Tank (Melee)
1 Prot Off-Tank (melee)
1 Priest Healer
1 Druid Healer
1 Unholy DK (melee)
1 Blood DK (melee)
1 Fury Warrior (melee)
1 Mut Rogue (melee)
1 Warlock
1 Boomkin (will help heal if need be - but is our strongest DPS)

As a casual raiding guild, that is very close and has been around since preBC, it's hard to figure out what to do. I now have an 80 mage that wants to raid, but he does not run heroics with the guild, so it's kind of hard to give him priority slot over a melee, even though the group probably needs it, when all the melee runs heroics and everything else with the guild.

Next problem is underperformance. I try my hardest to help everyone with specs, rotations, and everything else, I spend ALOT of my time doing recomendations to post their DPS, and they usually listen if I give advice, but then just go right back to their old rotations, or don't use their spec how websites/guides recommend.

When we were fighting Anub'rekhan yesterday we had a DK who just turned 80 that day pushing 1600 DPS, we had the boomkin, who was our first 80, pushing about the same, but everyone else was 1200-1400 DPS.

I try to run heroics with them every chance I get, but I just don't know the answer as to how to push them to do better.

01-08-2009, 09:14 AM
I feel for you. I encounted this issue when I first started raiding in earnest a long time ago, and I found out I'd never force people to improve if they had no desire to improve. It saddened me that players were like that, because it held me up. But hey! everyone plays a different game and WOW is big enough for us all. You just need to be with like-minded people. So I found some new friends and new guilds, and I'm a lot happier now.

By very close, do you mean you're all great friends? For me, I only ever want to play with players who share my play attitude: push the edge, constant development, be on your game, improve your game... constantly. There are very few players like that on my server.

I wouldnt say too much melee is necessarily a problem - you just have to work around it, and there are always ways to do it. If your mage isnt willing to gear up in heroics, then.... why not??? If players dont make an effort to improve something as simple as dps, its doubtful they'll have much luck on more complex fights that require good dps and reactive skill, positioning attention & quick thinking.

Well, maybe everything you describe is very common in the casual world, but I dont understand how it could work. My former casual guild wanted "see new content" and yet didnt want to make any effort to develop as players. Doesn't that sound like an impossible position to you?

01-08-2009, 01:33 PM
When we were fighting Anub'rekhan yesterday we had a DK who just turned 80 that day pushing 1600 DPS, we had the boomkin, who was our first 80, pushing about the same, but everyone else was 1200-1400 DPS.

IMO 1.2-1.4k DPS buffed seems way too low for Naxx. My casual guild shoots for 1200 unbuffed (no self buffs or raid buffs) on the boss target dummy.

Have you tried running Obsidian Sanctum or Vault of Archavon? I've just started running Naxx and those two seem much easier. We did both in an hour. The only trick with VoA is Wintergrasp has to be in your factions control.

01-09-2009, 07:41 PM
Well simple: if they are not willing to make an effort, you do not make an effort to make a raid. Why? They have to understand that raids do not happen, like suprise birthday parties - everyone knows it is going to happen and they have to make an effort for it be smooth and fun. If they are not willing to work - they do not get to raid.

I remember when we first bumped into gear check boss: Guys, This fight just drains us out, need more dps.
Got plenty of reactions: when we do heroics tomorrow? I promise to get another <xmount>AP!

Simply point out: We are not ready for this: dps too low, not going to work. If they actually are interested - they will make an effort. If not - depends on your relations in guild.

We had one warrior, who was really superb, but our relaxed attitude and slow pace did not suit him. He left for a more raid-focused guild, but we do keep in touch with him (Azeroth is not that big! Come to think of Dalaran) and if we need a hand in raid sometimes he joins us on his other characters.
He got what he wanted from game - we still got relations with him. No regrets.

01-30-2009, 12:26 AM
the only issue where mele dps comes into play would be on KT last boss of the instance.... so if you REALLY need casters its then.. even then 3 mele is fine, if ur healers are good 4. 2nd its 10 man naxx, the fights are retarded easy. if your heroic geared 2k dps should be standard for 10 man if your doing less than the tank, your terrible most likely you need to show them websites like elitest jerks or maxdps.com... if they cant figure it out, have fun with thaddius

01-30-2009, 08:25 AM
The highest dps groups I've seen for 10 men are physical dps groups, melee heavy with hunters. All those melee classes just seem to empower eachother more then a spread of classes or even a ranged group does.
At the moment I think melee(physical) synergy. is better the ranged(magical) synergy.