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View Full Version : Broken Promise vs Last Laugh?



Glok
01-06-2009, 04:19 AM
Its a simple question but I fear the answer may not be. Currently I am using Broken Promise as I have not had the fortune of seeing Last Laugh drop from the dying hands of Kelthuzad.

But I have been wondering - if/when Last Laugh drops - will I swap it out?
Yes it has greater stats and higher dps but with the current style of aoe tanking coupled with everybodies favourite deeps wounds spec Broken Promise is hard to pass up!

With threat being a non issue in almost every situation as of WotLK I dont see why the protection warrior of today cant focus on maximizing a solid damage output contribution to his raid. I dont know how the best of you are performing but Im regularly averaging between 1700 - 1800 dps in heroic raid and Im still up for plenty of upgrades.

So to the theory crafters: in terms of damage output is [fast weapon/high dps] > [slow weapon/lower dps] with deep wounds spec? Id love to see some numbers comparing these two great weapons in particular!

Thanks for reading and..

I LOVE TANKSPOT

Dreg
01-06-2009, 04:27 AM
slow weapons are only better than fast weapons with over 11k ap ... so unless you can do that Last Laugh is far superior.

i don't have the numbers but there is a large thread about it (search for it)


Edit: here it is
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/41760-slow-weapon-deep-wounds-math-challenge.html

Gnurken
01-06-2009, 04:29 AM
I don't know what race you play but me playing an Orc I cannot see passing up on a tanking axe. 5 more expertise is major.

Also still waiting for it to drop, but we haven't seen Broken Promise either. Seems Naxx is filled with daggers for us :)

Dreg
01-06-2009, 04:34 AM
either way, sword of courage and Slayer of the lifeless are amazing tanking weapons if you have one =)

Glok
01-06-2009, 05:15 AM
slow weapons are only better than fast weapons with over 11k ap ... so unless you can do that Last Laugh is far superior.

i don't have the numbers but there is a large thread about it (search for it)


Edit: here it is
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/41760-slow-weapon-deep-wounds-math-challenge.html

Thanks for the link. My understanding is the crossover figure of 11k AP before a slow weapon is preferred to a fast one is with regard to single target dps. I accept that. But what about when aoe tanking? Many mobs with bigger rolling deep wounds ticks - does this same figure apply?

Dreg
01-06-2009, 05:18 AM
honestly im not sure, i've yet to see any math on it. but i would suggest trying both ... see which feels comfortable... i personally like the fast weapons more for more cleaves going out.

veneretio
01-06-2009, 07:01 AM
Thanks for the link. My understanding is the crossover figure of 11k AP before a slow weapon is preferred to a fast one is with regard to single target dps. I accept that. But what about when aoe tanking? Many mobs with bigger rolling deep wounds ticks - does this same figure apply?
It would only apply to singlet target tanking, but frankly, that's what matters. Your priority has to be your contribution to bosses not to trash mobs. Last Laugh is the best tanking weapon in the game hands down atm. Passing it up would be rather silly.

Glok
01-06-2009, 02:50 PM
It would only apply to singlet target tanking, but frankly, that's what matters. Your priority has to be your contribution to bosses not to trash mobs. Last Laugh is the best tanking weapon in the game hands down atm. Passing it up would be rather silly.


There is no doubt it is and I cant wait to get my hands on it. There is also no doubt that on boss fights (or any other single target) fights Last Laugh would be my choice. Im just curious to know whether at some point Broken Promise closes the gap on damage output on larger pulls. When I have the choice - will I swap it out for trash? Farming?

Any other opinions on this? Thanks for the response so far!

Dreg
01-06-2009, 02:51 PM
with deepwounds only being ~5% damage, and HS/cleave being alot more (more cleaves is really good). i would assume not.

Krenian
01-06-2009, 02:53 PM
HAH! This thread pretty much answered my theory about me wanting to kill my warrior MT that took my Broken Promise from me! Thank you folks, now I shall go proceed and bash his effin skull in. (Has not seen one drop since, and a pally got it for offset x.x)

Dreg
01-06-2009, 02:55 PM
that being said some of the tanks from top 20 guilds thought slow weapons were good for a wile =p

Krenian
01-06-2009, 02:55 PM
that being said some of the tanks from top 20 guilds thought slow weapons were good for a wile =p

Shows that no matter how high you are in progression, you can still be a tool! :D

Jathine
01-06-2009, 03:15 PM
HAH! This thread pretty much answered my theory about me wanting to kill my warrior MT that took my Broken Promise from me! Thank you folks, now I shall go proceed and bash his effin skull in. (Has not seen one drop since, and a pally got it for offset x.x)

Umm...you do realize the math in the linked thread operates outside of the actual achievable values you can get in the game, right? There are not two tanking weapons of the ilvl 213 in the game, so there cannot be two different speeds. If your MT was using say...a blue weapon he made the right call.

Krenian
01-06-2009, 03:24 PM
Umm...you do realize the math in the linked thread operates outside of the actual achievable values you can get in the game, right? There are not two tanking weapons of the ilvl 213 in the game, so there cannot be two different speeds. If your MT was using say...a blue weapon he made the right call.

Problem: He wasn't, he was using the Sword of the Lifeless or whatever drops from Naxx 10 man which is why I wanted to cry.

Glok
01-06-2009, 03:24 PM
with deepwounds only being ~5% damage, and HS/cleave being alot more (more cleaves is really good). i would assume not.

So youre saying more frequent HS/Cleaves on 1/2 targets using a fast weapon will always be superior dps than bigger Deep Wounds ticks using a slow weapon on packs of 6/8/10/20 targets? I dont think its that simple. As the number of targets in your pull increases, the gap definately closes between the two.
Perhaps in this particular case Last Laugh has such a headstart on its innate dps (156.6 vs 171.6) vs Broken Promise that you are still correct. But Im not convinced (yet!) that faster will always be superior in every situation particularly when comparing 2 weapons with similar innate dps stats.

Last Laugh wins this round though I believe. Cheers for the interest!

Jathine
01-06-2009, 03:29 PM
Problem: He wasn't, he was using the Sword of the Lifeless or whatever drops from Naxx 10 man which is why I wanted to cry.

Idk, I saw a really solid increase in my TPS and my DPS when I went from Widow's Fury to my Broken Promise. (I get to run as Fury tonight, so you won't see that in my Armory).

Remember all theorycrafting is based on absolute perfection. It cannot account for things like lag and such. Sometimes RNG just craps on you as well. Here is the important question: did his TPS/DPS go up once he got Broken Promise? If the answer is no, then you should bash his face in; otherwise, no need to get pissed off.

Krenian
01-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Oh I wasn't mad, it's just the swords (yes, both broken promises) are needed for me to test out my damn dual wield theory and both swords went buh bye in front of me. Honestly, I didn't see any of his threat honestly change with both weapons, I won't bash his head in, I just sat there looking at the screen when I said oooh, let it go offset and he said 'nope, it won't' and he got it. Was one of those...the hell. Oh well, I am after all a DPSer anyway. /shrug. :)

Jathine
01-06-2009, 03:35 PM
with deepwounds only being ~5% damage, and HS/cleave being alot more (more cleaves is really good). i would assume not.

Deep Wounds is up to 17% of my total dps when I am tanking. It averages out to around 14% on most fights.

Myzery
01-06-2009, 06:03 PM
Note that moving to a slower weapon will scale your DPS faster then your threat. This is due to the innate threat bonuses on HS and Devastate.

Single targets: I found that if your not above ~2/3 heroic strike uptime with a 1.5/1.6 speed, moving to a slower weapon will be a DPS increase, regardless of Deep Wounds. If your geared, this means trash and heroics.

AOE: At some number of mobs, maxing your deep wounds damage will be more important then maxing your cleave damage. I'm gussing this number could be as low as 6 or 7 mobs. It's like a function of your AOE dmg to Direct Damage ratio.

Cedix
01-08-2009, 01:26 AM
I got my hand on Broken Promises 2 days ago and its a damn good upgrade from my blue Infantry Assault Blade :)

atashe
01-08-2009, 08:42 AM
I know this is vs Last Laugh, but there have been discussions here vs Slayer of the Lifeless.

I actually have both 'Broken Promise' & 'Slayer of the Lifeless' ... and I still can't figure out which one I like more =/

I'm using 'Broken Promise' right now simply cause I think it looks cool :D

Wars
01-08-2009, 05:26 PM
I've had broken promise since our first 4h kill on 11/30. We have had 5(FIVE!) last laughs drop since then and I have had the unfortunate luck of not being there on any of the 5 kills where we got him(I work and miss the first two hours of each of our weekday raids!). Our dks have last laughs for offspec tanking.

Also the one time I was there for it, we gave it to the paladin because, "Paladins SoR scales off weapon dmg." And I am the only orc in the guild, damn it.


My impressions of using the BP is that its almost a non-issue. I am such a good tank that it really doesn't matter if I'm using something w/20dps less and .9s faster.

Of course it would be better to have it, but without it, you are not going to suffer.

RingWraith
01-12-2009, 01:08 AM
Hmm i cant really decide Broken Promise or my Red Sword of Courage... People keep saying that Red sword is best due to its speed.. I was thinking Red Sword on trash and Broken Promise on Bosses but i dunno