View Full Version : Four Horseman Trouble
We have been steadily progressing through Naxx. I am quite happy with our progress, it seems we get two new bosses down each time we go in there. 4 horseman however seems like it may be our undoing. Our raid setup is:
We tried 3 or 4 different tactics on 4HM last night and just could seem to get it right. Mainly the problem was with the healing. They are great healers but there just didnít seem to be a spot where they could heal both tanks and not stack both marks. So we would either lose a healer to a Mark or Meteor or they would out range a tank who would get worn down.
I can see how a Third healer would trivialize the whole fight but we donít have that atm and the only class we have that can keep themselves alive in the back is the Shammy so we need one of our healers helping out back there too.
Thanks in advance.
01-04-2009, 04:43 PM
Ouch. Yes well I've only run naxx10 with 3 healers, not 2, and while you can get by with a lot of the content with only 2 (as long as they're very well geared and very good players) we're much more successful on healing intense fights like 4H, Sapp & KT with 3. We haven't needed the extra spot for dps. Im not sure how you could do those last 2 fights with 2 either. Maybe its possible if you're all elite players and very well geared ... but unless you are, why not find another healer? I wouldnt risk it with 2 atm.
Were not a progression guild, we are a bunch of mates trying to get through content. So we don’t really want to recruit more people and we defiantly don’t wont to bench someone. We all quite enjoy the challenge of getting through content without necessarily min/maxing. When we did Kara and started ZA pre patch we have 1 tank, 2 healers, 3 mages and assorted dps.
I am starting to think that i may need to repsec for some of the fights (I’m the Prot Pally) and we will get one of the DKs to step into tanking. Was just hoping there would be another way.
01-04-2009, 05:17 PM
There is another way, but basically its just that healers need to be really pro.
The healers will have to watch the timers for when marks will be cast and run out of range in time. A resto druid should be able to only get the one dot by hotting up the tank on baron and staying with the group at thane up front.
Have the holy priest keep a shield/renew/flash heal on the other target when he can in the back but otherwise stay out of range of that mark. If the shaman can toss on healing gear, he can keep himself alive in the back while the priest stays with another person on the other side on the back. Either way itll be rough, but it can be done.
Thanks for the Replies guys, we are going back in tonight to work on them. I will post here about how we get on and what stratergy we use in the end.
01-04-2009, 05:34 PM
Only thing i can think of is for the back have the lock and shammy work back there since they can heal. lock would have to spam drain life and maybe have up demon armor. make sure the healers are group'd up on thane for meteor whenever they're over there.
01-04-2009, 05:44 PM
First time we did 4h 10-man we only had two healers(not very well geared).
What we did:
Have two people tank the ranged people on the platform, behind the skull in the corner. What they do is that they run in and to the pull, and get on their respective horseman's agro list. Then they stay on the platform within 45 yards of their add. They switch every 3 marks. A healer can then be at the other side of the platform and heal the both of them. The other healer starts off a little further towards the entrance and heals the rest of the raid. Healers switch with each other every three marks.
Ahh see i was designing somthing like this in my head this morning but didnt know if we could pull it off. It is one of the options i am going to give a try tonight.
Do the ranged dps at the back need to re-engage the bosses each change? or just be close enough?
01-05-2009, 05:57 AM
Our first time in we struggled like crazy, after about 10 wipes we gave up (read: lots of screaming at each other over vent) and called it a night. Came back the next week and wiped once then owned it. Our strat is one I haven't seen posted anywhere...
In the back you have one healer and one ranged dps that swap out. The healer can reach himself and the ranged while still being close enough to their bosses...The front is the fun part. I take the Baron over to his corner and all the dps and the other tank go to the other. The dps burn everything they have and down him before the 4th debuff comes up, by then Ive potted, and burned all my oh sh!t cd's but it doesnt matter, the other tank comes and takes baron away from me and I clear my debuffs and heal myself up (beauty of a druid/pally tank) By the time they have 3 debuffs I'm ready to grab him back. Once the two front guys are down it's just tank 'n spank. None of our dpsers out gear naxx, and 2k dps is rare, so anyone with heroic gear can do it.
All that being said sevve's plan seems easier.
01-05-2009, 07:15 AM
We did this with two healers the other night and did the following. Two locks on back ranged guys (one lock and one shammy in your case), they stand on either side of the central raised platform nearer to their tanks. Tanks and rest fo dps is split between the two front guys as normal. Healers stand on either side of central platform, our pally said he could stand and heal both which ranged tank and melee tank was closest to him without getting any stacks. So each healer focuses on the melee tank on his side, giving the ranged tank a hand if needed.
Not sure if that's at all clear, but it may be another option, lots of ways to do it, just got to find one that works for you.
The burn one down fast is also an option depending on your dps.
01-05-2009, 12:48 PM
Ranged and one healer swapping on Blaumeux and Zeliek. MT/OT on Rivendare and Korthazz, one healer on OT, your enh shaman on the MT as he'll have better gear. Your MT and OT should be trying to give themselves as much help as possible (self heals, avoidance/mitigation trinkets/abilities etc).
We used this same tactic (though admittedly we had an ele shaman which is a little easier) and were fine, did the "And they all go down together" achievement so there was no blowing one up fast.
Right so a little un orthodox but we got there. Downed them on our third attempt last night. Firstly we tried with Prot pally and Enh shammy down the back keeping themselves up, but the Shammy keep missing the transitions.
Conner 1: had Prot Warrior, Resto Druid, Rouge (We had to pug a couple last night), Mage.
Conner 2: Prot Pally, Enh Shammy (on off heals), Lock, Fury Warrior (another pug)
Back: Holy priest and Unholy DK
We just keep it simple, no quick burn, easy transitions. Resto Druid was trying to get HoTs on Prot Pally during transition but apart from that it was all slow and stready. Baron and Korthazz died almost exactly the same time and then it was an easy burn on the back two.
Thanks for all your help and suggestion guys,
01-05-2009, 11:04 PM
I will give my two cents on how I have done this boss fight.
2x Holy Priest
Ret Pally (me)
Elemental and Enhancement Shamans
You really only need 2 healers for this fight if your group is good enough, however our strategy worked extremely well and no one died on the fights after getting coordinated with the boss. Basically myself and the Elemental Shaman were tanking the two bosses in the top corner of the room, with one of the priests on me casting heals while I DPS the crap out of both bosses and the shammy just beating the other up and healing himself, when we would bolt across the room to switch places, the priest would cast a bubble and heal the shammy while I picked up aggro from the adjacent boss. The tanks would basically be doing the same thing here, however the DPS would all be on the first boss you have to kill, then they would all switch over as the tanks taunted off on eachother and the opposing boss would get DPSed down a bit. After the two bosses at the bottom of the room were dead, it was basically just a burn as the tanks split up as did the DPS, the only two people who really had to worry about changing places at the same time were myself in the shaman, as our ticks for the debuff were at the same time and the others had none until they got to the bosses. There really isn't much to the Four Horsemen fight otherwise, it's just a simple running back and forth and keeping the guys up top alive.
01-06-2009, 04:50 AM
Mac's 4H strat:
2 tanks with single target taunt
The mob that meteors is marked with skull.
We put a melee tank and two dps in each of the front two corners. We put a ranged in each of the back corners. One healer is on each side, positioned such that they a) can reach one of the front groups, b) can reach the ranged tank in back, and c) do not get a stacking debuff from anything other than the mob that is being melee tanked on their side.
This means that the ranged tank in back shouldn't hug the mob, which is the point of using a ranged tank. We could put a melee back there if that's all we had, but they shouldn't be in melee range, because for this to work, the healers can't get debuffs from the mobs in back, because there is no simple way to let the debuffs stop stacking.
When the ranged tanks accumulate enough debuffs (call it two stacks) they switch sides (at the same time). This allows their debuffs to stop stacking. The healers of course have to know that the ranged tanks have switched.
In front, the tank who is tanking skull waits until a) he has 2 stacks of debuff, and b) a meteor has just happened, then he yells "switch" on vent and both tanks run toward each other, taunt the other guy's mob when in range, then run like hell back to their original corner, where the dps waits. People who are dpsing skull hug skull when the tank gets back with it. The meteor in 10's isn't usually fatal unless there is a catastrophic mistake and bad luck, but it's sensible to treat it like it will be fatal.
Switching the front tanks causes all debuffs on the melee groups and the healers to stop stacking and fade.
Once the front mobs are dead, kill the back mobs at leisure, using common sense to avoid stacking marks too high.
Easy as pie. When my group entered Naxx, we could not find a strat for this boss online, so we had to discover it for ourselves. Once we figured it out, we two-shotted this boss, and one-shot him now unless someone important disconnects.
Obvious extension works in 25, too.
It's a satisfying fight because it requires a good strat, teamwork, and some basic awarness, but it's not a frustrating fight because it doesn't require every raid member to execute some complicated operations perfectly. Everyone's job is pretty easy, just not the same as everyone else's. I am extremely satisfied with this strat because it would work with any group config except one with two paladin tanks, and it is extremely easy to explain and execute. Only four people have to move, even in 25's.
With the OP's set up
Have one of your DKs tank Thane. Heroism/Bloodlust and burn down the first one. Prot warrior tanks Baron. Holy priest heals this group
Prot paladin can heal himself while occupying Blo'mo's attention.
Throw the warlock in the back with the shaman healing both tanks.
Kill thane and Baron and fan out to take out the other two with melee on Blo'mo and casters on Zeliak initially.
The hard part is over. Coordinate movement and collect loot.