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Tarkonn
12-30-2008, 03:50 AM
I don't know if this is confirmed, but I had read somewhere that the cleave glyph is going to add an extra target hit instead of reducing rage cost by 5.

With that being said, how far will this help warriors with AOE aggro, and how much do you feel it will scale our DPS up in raids?

Have to say, the improved cleave spec would work out pretty nice if this is for real... =)

iofe
12-30-2008, 03:58 AM
It looks good i agree, but one could argue that "who cares about multimob agro rly, it's all (or mostly) about boss fight?"

That beeing said, i think ill get it instead of sunder armor glyph (which also aint helping much on bosses :D )

Fitzlestick
12-30-2008, 04:13 AM
I think it is not a very usefull glyph for raids. We run naxx25 with 3 and naxx10 with 2 tanks. Trash do make up most of the total raid time, but it is hardly an issue. Thunderclap and Shockwave mostly take care of it of any aoe tanking.

Maybe for heroics, but i've not really had any issue with multimob tanking there either, unless we have dps that start single target dpsing the wrong mob, or a fury warrior doing instane crit whirlwinds at the start.

I'll stick with my Glyph of Revenge, Glyph of Blocking and Glyph of Heroic Strike for the moment.

fatbchris
12-30-2008, 05:02 AM
I think that change kind of sucks. Although I guess it has its uses. I was milking the Cleave glyph and able to spam cleave with multiple mob pulls. It was great having it only cost 12 rage. Although i guess with hitting an extra mob now it might be a better 3rd option now after using Thunderclap and Shockwave first, of course. That is, if your even having hate problems with multiple mob pulls.

Tarkonn
12-30-2008, 01:14 PM
I think that change kind of sucks. Although I guess it has its uses. I was milking the Cleave glyph and able to spam cleave with multiple mob pulls. It was great having it only cost 12 rage. Although i guess with hitting an extra mob now it might be a better 3rd option now after using Thunderclap and Shockwave first, of course. That is, if your even having hate problems with multiple mob pulls.

Yeah, I'm interested to see how it plays out. Currently with trash pulls I find aggro pretty easy to hold, save a 2200+ DPSer going all out on a mob I'm not cleaving. Normally SS/Rev works to put me back over them, but the change to the cleave glyph will change my rotation a bit. I may have to go TC/Shockwave/Berserker rage every pull now just so I can get the rage required to keep spamming cleave. On the plus side we'll have an easier time maintaining aggro, on the downside we're becoming more susceptible to not generating enough rage to get things rolling on pulls.

In regards to folks talking about boss fights, there really is -no- way someone is pulling aggro off a warrior while he is in a single-target rotation. As long as you have gone down the prot spec enough and you know your rotation, you should be able to maintain 2400+ TPS through boss fights without any issues. The real weakness with warriors which I am constantly trying to build my spec towards is AOE aggro. It's the heroic trash and raid trash that are always warriors' problem, not aggro on any single target.

Again though, I'm interested to see how this glyph will change my overall DPS on the charts. TBH I'm expecting to jump up at least 150-300 overall but seeing it jump 400 would be optimal.

Here's a link to me "Improved Cleave" build that has been making things much easier with AOE tanking so far: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior=05000000000000000000000000000005335122500 3010411330113321302053000000000000000000000&glyph=020415010306

Gadolas
12-31-2008, 04:17 AM
Yeah, I'm interested to see how it plays out. Currently with trash pulls I find aggro pretty easy to hold, save a 2200+ DPSer going all out on a mob I'm not cleaving. Normally SS/Rev works to put me back over them, but the change to the cleave glyph will change my rotation a bit. I may have to go TC/Shockwave/Berserker rage every pull now just so I can get the rage required to keep spamming cleave. On the plus side we'll have an easier time maintaining aggro, on the downside we're becoming more susceptible to not generating enough rage to get things rolling on pulls.

In regards to folks talking about boss fights, there really is -no- way someone is pulling aggro off a warrior while he is in a single-target rotation. As long as you have gone down the prot spec enough and you know your rotation, you should be able to maintain 2400+ TPS through boss fights without any issues. The real weakness with warriors which I am constantly trying to build my spec towards is AOE aggro. It's the heroic trash and raid trash that are always warriors' problem, not aggro on any single target.

Again though, I'm interested to see how this glyph will change my overall DPS on the charts. TBH I'm expecting to jump up at least 150-300 overall but seeing it jump 400 would be optimal.

Here's a link to me "Improved Cleave" build that has been making things much easier with AOE tanking so far: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior=05000000000000000000000000000005335122500 3010411330113321302053000000000000000000000&glyph=020415010306

Um Lots of dpsers can pull aggro if you're doing 2400 tps :S Especially on Malygos. Don't know about your dpsers but our dualwield frost death knights are doing 4k + tps

Tarkonn
12-31-2008, 09:14 AM
Um Lots of dpsers can pull aggro if you're doing 2400 tps :S Especially on Malygos. Don't know about your dpsers but our dualwield frost death knights are doing 4k + tps

Sorry, I'm just going off non-raid buff stats, most of my experience is in heroics for now. I haven't watched my TPS in raids that much, I've been more focused on learning the fights. Haven't had DPS pull off of me though on bosses. *shrug*

Lightmgl
12-31-2008, 10:40 AM
Yeah single target I need just shy of 6k consitent TPS to hold off our highest single target DPS nowadays and their burst TPS can be as high as 8k for cooldown/heroism periods. Start working on that threat now, you will need it if you are in a guild that is gonna be pushing new content or has really competitive DPSers :). If you get high enough you can start ToTTing your DPS instead of your tanks, they really like that.

This glyph sucks. We are still left as the only class without consistent unlimited target aoe threat, our aoe threat is entirely burst. They should just be done with it and make cleave hit unlimited targets with the glyph. Fix us once and for all, stop giving us abilities that don't mean a damn thing in large multitarget situations which is all that really matters for aoe threat. Either that or cut the cooldown on thunderclap in half or something.

The only situation this glyph would help in is heroics and my threat is sufficient enough in there already due to the very quick kills. Cleave is also very low on my priority because it is expensive and rage is still somewhat limited.

For AoE DPS I'm completely outclassed by HB DKs and completely gear maxxed Mages. I can only hold off them for very short fights. Not to mention all 3 other tanks easily do double my aoe threat. I just let the Paladin and DK handle that stuff while I hold the really hard hitters or the mobs with whirlwind slightly off to the side so the melees don't get eaten.