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View Full Version : Discuss:achievements give too much information.



orcstar
12-10-2008, 04:02 AM
I think the current implementation of achievements give too much information. Espcially because they are also shown on the web. If someone can make a link between me and my character, there's a lot of interesting data to be gather for for example, how long I am online, how often, what I do in a virtual world etc. etc.
Is there an option *not* to show thisstuff? I think blizzard gone a step too far here, because especially publishing it online can be used for datamining and it will end up somewhere out of my or blizzards control.

Klimpen
12-10-2008, 04:14 AM
Curiously, because I had a quick look and didn't see it.

Where exactly is the 'average length of play', 'average frequency of play' section?

orcstar
12-10-2008, 04:28 AM
While there is no section with these exact numbers, it's easily deductible information given the load of other information there is.

For my character: 1758 quests completed, average of 35 quest/day: 1758/35= about 50 days playtime which is correct. That is how datamining works. While you might not see the numbers, they're there. That is how advanced datamining works.

Edgar
12-10-2008, 04:51 AM
Okay so we now how long you played. What now? How is this information any good to me or to any one else.

Murdog
12-10-2008, 04:53 AM
What exactly can people *DO* with this information i really dont see how someone knowing how much you play a video game really could effect you.

And if we are following the math i have 2500 quest's done and at 35 a day that should put me at 100 days play time where im at 281 >.> (damn this games addicting) mind you 1/4 of that is prolly afk time.

I think your over reacting the people that could use this advanced datamining thing you talking about prolly have alot more important things to data mine then how much you play a video game. And im still curious to what they can actually do with this information doesnt seem like much to me.


(I feel like ive just been trolled)

Satrina
12-10-2008, 05:23 AM
1) It can't be tied to a real person in any way, so it's moot for any real consequence
2) Blizzard owns everything as per Terms of Service, so your choices are pretty much let it slide (as it allows datamining of nothing of consequence anyway, as above) or stop playing.

Edit: Worry about what the waiter you gave your credit card to at the restaurant was doing with it, not stuff like this.

Tatt
12-10-2008, 06:46 AM
The only info I can think this would be good for is if blizzard decides to start selling in game advertising, companies can see the average ontime play of people by it and decide how much exposure their advertising is getting.

Darksend
12-10-2008, 06:49 AM
the only offending one i saw was max gold ever held, and ya know what, they got rid of that one pretty dam fast.


if people have concerns about other ones then im sure blizzard will take a look into it just like they did with the gold one.

Rak
12-10-2008, 07:33 AM
If a datamining company wants to know how long people are playing, they can just use bots to monitor realms individually for extremely accurate results. Also, I don't really see how it is an encroachment on my privacy if people can figure out how long my online avatar is in a game with thousands of other people.

Roana
12-10-2008, 08:07 AM
I have always been surprised myself that the EU version of the armory did not run afoul of EU data protection laws. That the data is tied to a pseudonym (your character's name) instead of your real name will generally not exempt a company from adhering to data protection requirements.

On the other hand, I'm not an expert, and I would be surprised if Blizzard hadn't looked at this themselves.

Legal issues aside, I'm also wondering why some of the data is even publicly available: it appears to be primarily of interest for snoops and less for any legitimate issues I can think of.

Shadevarr
12-10-2008, 08:16 AM
We use the armory achievements to see what a potential guild applicant has done. It's a QD resume of sorts.

Lore
12-10-2008, 08:30 AM
The most gold I've ever held is 9443g, 67s, 41c.

Please don't use this very sensitive information to kill my family.

Tocatank
12-10-2008, 08:30 AM
We use the armory achievements to see what a potential guild applicant has done. It's a QD resume of sorts.

Defiantly works well as a transcript of what instances/raids someone has done, and will be even more useful once there are more raids in Wrath

Optimoos
12-10-2008, 08:32 AM
The most gold I've ever held is 9443g, 67s, 41c.

Please don't use this very sensitive information to kill my family.

I can translate your maximum gold amount into gps coordinates of your home along with your social insurance number and date of birth. Owned.

orcstar
12-10-2008, 08:55 AM
Dear mr. Y
When you applied to a job with us, you stated to not have any addictions.

By browsing some blogs we found out you have been playing world of warcraft. We also found out you play the characters by the names n, m and o. Looking at the achievements all these characters combined geined there's clearly a pattern of addiction.
You obviously lied to us on your application. You're fired.

Edgar
12-10-2008, 08:59 AM
Yeah right.

Well in that case you shouldn't make your character's name public and off you go.

Lore
12-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Dear mr. Y
When you applied to a job with us, you stated to not have any addictions.

By browsing some blogs we found out you have been playing world of warcraft. We also found out you play the characters by the names n, m and o. Looking at the achievements all these characters combined geined there's clearly a pattern of addiction.
You obviously lied to us on your application. You're fired.

Dear Mr. Y,

When you applied to a job with us, you stated to not have any addictions.

By observing your eating habits we found out that you spend nearly every lunch break at McDonalds. We also found out that you always order a Big Mac combo with fries and a Dr. Pepper. Looking at the amount of Big Macs you eat there's clearly a pattern of addiction.
You obviously lied to us on your application. You're fired.

Shieven
12-10-2008, 11:35 AM
First post.

This is by far the coolest Post ever!

I love this world, keep up the great work.

Theomach
12-10-2008, 12:36 PM
We use the armory achievements to see what a potential guild applicant has done. It's a QD resume of sorts.

In my opinion, though, that's not very fair. What about the people that are just buying the game now, and never had the chance to do all those raids and instances from classic WoW and BC? Just because they never did Crypts, you wouldn't want them in your guild?

I haven't done a single one of the new instances in Lich King. Guess I should just quit playing altogether, since my worth as a player is now being judged by what virtual rooms my pixels have stood in.

Kazeyonoma
12-10-2008, 12:42 PM
theomach you're kinda jumping the gun on this. it doesn't mean he won't take you just because you never did Pre-wotlk.

of course if you show that you cleared illidan on your achievements it means you've raided before.

if it shows you've run a few heroics in wotlk it shows you've put some time into heroic instances, etc etc. It's not like shadevarr said "hrm, this guy has 2200 achievement points and theomach has 0! lets take the other guy!". He merely said that it helps him in the application process because it shows what the people have done, not that if they haven't done something they won't get accepted.

relax.

Rak
12-10-2008, 12:45 PM
You also have to understand that most high-end guilds take applicants from other servers. It can save the applicant's time and money if we can determine if their experience level is enough to fit in the guild well. Not all guilds are going to take the time to deal with someone who is new, and not all guilds will have someone transfer just to give them a trial and determine they aren't right for the guild.

Merko
12-10-2008, 12:49 PM
Something like this came up in our guild... a fairly serious raiding guild... everyone is pushing to lvl to 80 and get geared up for Naxx ... we get in there everyone is pushing hard... 10 man group 2 is struggling... WTF... check out armory achievement page, oh yeah 2 of the healers have not run a single heroic yet and are still wearing 2 pieces of t4 and not any level 80 blues...

Needless to say they joined the "family and friends" rank in the guild very quick and have not seen any raid time since...

hbombs
12-10-2008, 12:51 PM
I wouldnt recruit you if you were level 80 and havent done a single heroic instance in WotLK. The pre-bc stuff wouldnt matter.

It is nice way to judge a player. It wont be as important as there application and available play times and what not but it is a clue as to what kind of player you are dealing with.

Jalousie
12-10-2008, 03:14 PM
I'm half and half.

Yes, if you're applying to a guild it may well be very useful as a means of verifying someone's experience; however, it's not to say that they didn't freeload their way through half the achievements. That said, I'm sure it feels good to have completed all those instances and have record that you've done so.

On the other hand - is it really important how many times you've waved and where you've explored?

Tatt
12-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Maybe its because I am not applying for a guild at the moment, but I honestly have no idea what achievements I have accomplished and what I have not. I've never looked. Last night the buzzer came on and said I have accomplished 1000 quests.....and I went wow I have wasted that much of my life, huh?

Genova
12-10-2008, 06:08 PM
Dear mr. Y
When you applied to a job with us, you stated to not have any addictions.

By browsing some blogs we found out you have been playing world of warcraft. We also found out you play the characters by the names n, m and o. Looking at the achievements all these characters combined geined there's clearly a pattern of addiction.
You obviously lied to us on your application. You're fired.

Haha when interviewing new people my boss specifically asks them if they play wow. If they say yes he says. Good, you will fit in well here. So maybe that could help you get a job ;)

Roana
12-10-2008, 06:46 PM
We use the armory achievements to see what a potential guild applicant has done. It's a QD resume of sorts.

That would work just as well if achievements and similar information were only made public on an opt-in basis, of course.

Alent
12-10-2008, 07:15 PM
Maybe I'm just looking at this thread wrong, but I thought the whole point of achievements was basically bragging rights? As in - hey, the game thought this was cool enough to make a record of that I could show the world!

It just seems like it makes it easier to say "yeah, we did naxxramas without wiping" to link someone your "the undying/the immortal" achievement, or if you don't link it and someone wants to call your hand on it, they can go to your armory and go "oh... heh... I guess they did."

Roana
12-11-2008, 02:07 AM
It just seems like it makes it easier to say "yeah, we did naxxramas without wiping" to link someone your "the undying/the immortal" achievement, or if you don't link it and someone wants to call your hand on it, they can go to your armory and go "oh... heh... I guess they did."

Not everybody cares about bragging rights, though, and some (like me) find that they poison the well further, enhancing the "community" attitude of one-upmanship.

As I said, no harm would be done if the whole feature were to be opt-in.

Kyoki
12-11-2008, 06:57 AM
Not everybody cares about bragging rights, though, and some (like me) find that they poison the well further, enhancing the "community" attitude of one-upmanship.

As I said, no harm would be done if the whole feature were to be opt-in.

All i ask for is simply an opt-out option. And not just so it doesnt show on the armory but so you dont even earn them when you complete the achievement. 100% gone, i think they are stupid and its annoying to constantly get spammed by them.

Genova
12-13-2008, 03:39 PM
Not everybody cares about bragging rights, though, and some (like me) find that they poison the well further, enhancing the "community" attitude of one-upmanship.

As I said, no harm would be done if the whole feature were to be opt-in.


Arent most games like that though, I mean think back to the 70's where people were fighting for top scores in Donkey Kong and other arcade games is where it started. The reason a lot of people play games is to 'one up' the next guy by saying hey check out what I did, I got this and you dont. It encourages the other guy to try to get it.

Sure its not always nice and a lot of people take it waay too far, but I think the achievement thing is a great idea, it lets people who dont have the ability to get gear, or raid, or even get to level 80 a way to show off what they have done in the game. I agree it should be something your able to turn off though, as a lot of people who play wow, play as a social thing and not the 'traditional' beat your little brothers top score game.

A game with no way to feel a sense that you have accomplished something is a game not worth playing.

orcstar
12-15-2008, 08:29 AM
Maybe I should have been more specific, but one thingtied into the achievement system is the statistics page. You can exaclty how often I have done this and that boss, how often I done a dungeon. If I'm hugger or a violin player or both.

I think there needs to a cap on what can be shown.

Gadholm
12-15-2008, 08:52 AM
But no one cares how much you've done a boss. I suppose if I found out someone was /hugging all the time, I might be concerned about their ability to reason, but other than that, wanting a cap or opt-in is the silliest thing I've heard in a while. I'd like the developer's at blizzard working on something more important to more people than features like that, and although not beloved of achievements myself, I know a lot of people who truly enjoy them.

The only people who might care at all about this information is developers for other game companies who would use it make better games. That's not really a negative to me.


Satrina said it right: worry about the shifty teenager holding your credit card.

Bookie
12-15-2008, 05:47 PM
The man who sold people the idea that they are anonymous on the internet is the man who sold the world.

People seem to have fallen in love with the idea that they can lead secret lives. In any case, unless you're lying to your lover about your WoW addiction, your 25-man Malygos kills aren't hurting you. If they aren't catching your SSN or your Mastercard #, just keep your head low and smile at the fact that you are winning life.