View Full Version : Problems with guild size, seeking insight

12-09-2008, 04:55 PM
Hey all,

I'm the GM / RL / MT of my guild. We're fairly small, we run guild 10-mans and host 25's with pubs once in a while. We clear Naxx / OS / Malygos.

Recently, some of our slower levelers have begun to hit 80. We're at this terrible point now where we have FAR too many people for just 1 10 man, but not enough to run 2 groups with all guildies.

With this lockout, we've tried to come up with a situation that helps everyone. What we eventually decided on was to have our newer 80's form an all-guild group with some saltier players to give them loot exclusivity, to get them up to speed.

For our other players, we'll just host a pub. The only problem with this is the group with pubs will not be able to use their DKP which (understandably) bothers some of our players.

This seems to me at least to be the happiest balance we could come up with.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments?

12-10-2008, 11:03 AM
Well i think that the members that may have issue with this have the option to be in the raid or not. I do not use DKP in my guild as, for our style of play, the system would unfairly stack to certain players. So, in an attempt to not derail this into a pro/con DKP thread I think the big thing to remind people of is that: they choose to raid. If they are not happy with how the raids need to be run at this time then maybe they do not have the guild philosophy that you are looking for.

It seems to me that you are trying to do your best to gear up as many players as possible to run the 25-man content. The players upset about not being able to use their DKP need to realize that being part of a guild is about helping your guildmates. If this means that some of us need to take a small and acceptable hit to maintain the greater good then that is what being a guildie is all about. The old "there is no I in Team" speech.

There are a lot of politics in running a guild and being the raid leader but at the end of the day, depending on your management style, the guild is not a democracy. Ultimately final decisions made by the GM become law and, in my opinion, as long as those decision have a solid foundation in the guild's greatest benefit then, although distasteful at times, they should be followed.

Although we must walk a tightrope some days to appease the masses and keep our guild direction in line, you are the one running the guild. The guild should not be running you.

Hope this alternate perspective assists.

12-10-2008, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the reply - I agree with you on most of the issues you discussed.

Luckily, we had some last minute players hit 80 and we were able to run both groups with full guild - things were substantially slower as we had to spread our experienced players around.

One of the groups ran into some major hurdles but hopefully those will be cleared up tonight.

You are correct - I am trying to get as much gear to as many of my players as possible - however, we really don't have any intention of running guild 25-mans. We'd rather host pickup 25's than recruit more to fill our own 25's. For us, keeping the guild amongst friends is a more important goal than seeing 25-man content.

12-11-2008, 09:30 AM
I am glad things worked out for you. Happy hunting.

12-11-2008, 04:59 PM
If you have any additional insights from doing this setup over the coming weeks, I would be interested in hearing stories. So far, my guild has hosted a PuG and done a guild+specific invites raid - we are likely to be in the spot of having 13-16 raid-capable folks in the coming weeks, and I've been pondering going with the 2 hosted PuGs setup instead of setting ~5 folks on the bench.

12-12-2008, 07:30 AM
I fill up all my raid slots with people from the guild first. If you dont have enough for two i would recommend splitting your forces amongst two raids. This will maintain your guild's presence and ownership through the raid and ensure that the raids are run consistently. There is also a greater chance for more of your members to put "eyes" on the PuGs to determine which of those players may be guild material, or steady PUGers.

12-12-2008, 09:36 AM
Another option if you've got too many people for one run, but not enough for two, is to just swap people out. Do one wing with one set, then trade a bunch of people out for the next wing. That way everyone gets a chance to play. You just have to hope your group isn't too selfish with their raid spots, and realize that the options could be not playing at all, rather than sharing the sand box with everyone.