View Full Version : Holy/Ret in WotLK

12-03-2008, 10:25 PM
With the changes in WotLK, I've been thinking about actually dusting off my frooty little elf (god I wish cows could be pallies) and seeing if the paladin can be fun again. I'm looking at a primary Holy build, since I still firmly believe it's the ONLY Pally spec :P

Something I've been looking at:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAdxhdG0uMtRZZVf0xrh0b)

The idea is pretty much the old shock jock concept, which seems even more viable now that Holy Shock so strongly benefits from talents.

You take most standard healing talents, since your primary role is certainly still that of a healer, but with some Ret talents and the revamped Holy talents, you're still capable of reliable burst.

Pretty standard fare, I think. I'm taking Blessed Hands because I won't get access to Stoicism - can't have those Hands getting purged. I'm also skipping Holy Power in favor of 3/3 Sanctified Light and 2/2 Pure of Heart - DK diseases and Curse of Tongues are less of a problem this way. I'm taking Enlightened Judgements as it gives you the option of bursting someone while still being more or less safely behind your pillar, and it should also make keeping druids hampered by JoJ easier - or keeping JoL/JoW up more easily for your teammates.

Picking up Benediction reduces the rather high cost of Holy Shock, and Improved Judgements allows for more frequent bursting. Conviction gets us the 5% crit we missed out on Holy Power, Sanctified Seals further improves this, and Divine Purpose further improves our Hand of Freedom.

With these talents, we'll get a whopping 14% crit bonus to our heals and - more importantly - Holy Shock. With a focus on those Holy Shock crits (for Infusion of Light, of course), this lends itself to both burst healing (instant FoL or HL following a shock crit, assuming Light's Grace) and burst DPS. At the same time.

I would really like to pick up Holy Power and Stoicism, but I just can't see a practical way of doing so without sacrificing a lot of those juicy Ret talents. Thoughts?

EDITED 12/12/08: I slightly altered some talents. I took out 2/3 Crusade (which, honestly, isn't much use for a Holy pally to begin with) and used them to pick up 1/1 Aura Mastery and 1/3 Sacred Cleansing. An alternative would be 2/2 Improved Blessing of Wisdom, but I think that without Stoicism to protect those Blessings, it'd be wasted points.

As mentioned below, I could drop everything after Sanctified Seals and be able to pick up Blessing of Kings and either Stoicism or Guardian's Favor, but that would mean losing Divine Purpose. Stun immunity for my teammates just sounds more useful than global 30% dispel resistance.

Additionally, I was looking at glyphs, and this is what I'm liking so far:

Major: Glyph of Turn Evil, which will allow me to instantly get felpuppies off of me, as well as make Lichborne DKs and Metamorphosied Warlocks cry. Glyph of Seal of Wisdom, which will increase my mana efficiency, and combined with Sanctified Seals, is essentially a permanent -5% to healing spell MP costs. Glyph of Hammer of Justice, which increases the duration of the stun effect to 7 seconds. Of the three, HoJ is by far the weakest, but I don't really see any of the others being especially useful, though maybe Glyph of Cleanse. While most folks will either have stun reduction or trinket out of it, landing a 7 second stun on someone that can't trinket it would be devastating.

Minor: Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom, which increases the blessing's duration to 30 minutes for me only. Mostly a soloing/grinding thing, since any team with dispels will strip my blessing almost instantly. Glyph of the Wise, which reduces the MP cost for Seal of Wisdom by 50%; since I'll be keeping SoW up on myself permanently for the MP cost reduction for my healing spells, it's handy, and it's not like there are better options, really. Finally, Glyph of Lay on Hands, which increases the amount of MP restored to the target by 20%. It's filler. Glyph of Sense Undead might actually be more useful in some way :P

Glyph of Holy Light and Glyph of Flash of Light are enticing, but look far too situational. Even with the upcoming increase to 10 yd on the Glyph of Holy Light effect, it's rare that enough of my team members will be in range of each other that it'll be useful, and Glyph of Flash of Light greatly hurts my ability to pump out crazy-efficient chain heals while the felpuppy is off running in circles. They just seem like situational PvE trash.

12-04-2008, 08:35 AM
I'm looking at a primary Holy build, since I still firmly believe it's the ONLY Pally spec :P

And I think healing with a paladin is an awkward pointless exercise.

12-08-2008, 10:18 PM
Hopefully less so with the new talents. I'd be tempted to level my pally first if he wasn't a damned elf. Infusion of Light just looks so amazingly uber.

Freaking elves...

12-09-2008, 04:44 AM
And I think healing with a paladin is an awkward pointless exercise.

Funny i think exactly the same tho i am interested in the judgement of the pure mechanic and bacon!but cant really heal due to low fps so i dont bother..

12-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Toying with talent builds, I discovered it'll be possible to get either Stoicism (which will free up two points in Holy for other stuff, or would mean Hand spells getting +60% to resistance) or Guardian's Favor. However, this would mean missing out on Divine Purpose in Retribution.

Are stuns still as prevalent at 80 like they were at 70? Does Divine Purpose only cancel stuns when you cast it, or is it stun immunity for the duration of the effect? Can you cast it on yourself to get out of stuns? I'm referring to Hand of Freedom with Divine Purpose, by the way.

12-21-2008, 12:20 PM
Holy is turning out to be every bit as badass as I'd thought it'd be.

Infusion of Light and the changes to Holy Shock just completely change how things are done. They also place even more importance on crit rating, to the point that what little mp5 and haste I had before has been sacrificed (where possible) for more and more crit.

I'm very, very hard to kill, even against several opponents. With a decent crit rate (only 26%, but that's not too bad, I guess; 30% would be nicer), it's very possible for me to pop off a crit Holy Shock for about 3300 then an instant Flash of Light crit for another 2300 or so - 5600 HP while on the move, and in only a few seconds.

Not only that, but with Glyph of Seal of Wisdom and Glyph of the Wise, I can heal damned near forever without going OOM, especially if I can get away with just FoL.

Holy Light has become the de facto "healing bomb" for me. I only have a paltry 860 or so SP, yet I see 7.7k-8.1k crits almost consistently, and I've lost track of how many times I've gone from 15% to 93% in one second after an Infusion of Light proc (-0.5 sec from Light's Grace and another -1.0 sec from Infusion of Light = 1.00 sec cast!)

Soloing and ability to do damage hasn't really gone up much, though it certainly seems to be more efficient. Holy Shock is the only real damage ability, doing about 1600 or so normally every 6 seconds. Judgements are certainly a great deal weaker than they were before - a judging Righteousness only hits for a flimsy 350 or so, whereas it would easily hit for 700 or more even with only about 800 spellpower (not healpower) back in 2.x. I would certainly like to see my judgements start hitting for a decent amount again, so that I'm less reliant on Holy Shock for damage output.

Seal of Corruption has definitely replaced Seal of Righteousness for my primary damage seal. While the intial judgement amount is less (only about 260 or so with no stacks), having a dot is pretty handy, and the judgement gets nicer as I get more stacks, doing about 410 or so with a full five stacks on.

I'm definitely looking forward to WotLK now, and lvl 71 especially; I'm pretty sure that Divine Plea will be a game-changing ability for sure.

Lastly, since I'm capped at 70 right now, I'm using a 45/9/7 build, taking Stoicism from Protection and getting the necessities (Benediction and Improved Judgement) from Retribution. I'm not sure at what level I'll switch to my planned 45/0/24 (leaving two points to go anywhere) build. I am pretty sure that having a Hand of Freedom that grants stun immunity will be huge - no one's gonna be stopping that druid/shaman flagrunner.