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Ciderhelm
12-03-2008, 08:30 AM
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-JQSBWL2PAI


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I incorrectly refer to her Web Spray (the incapacitating spray) as Web Wrap. The actual Web Wrap is the cocoon I refer to earlier.

25-Man Notes
2 players will be web wrapped instead of one.


Timing
0:20 Web Wrap on random player
0:30 Eight spiders spawned
0:40 Raid-wide Web Spray

At 30% she Frenzies.


Cocoon Locations Note
There are several posted strategies suggesting Maexxna throws people against the wall in a direct line backwards from her. Players are confirming this. However, there are two examples in this movie where this is not the case, the clearest being at 1:40 -- watch closely as a player on the left is thrown over her body to the back right side.

Take it for what it is. I'd suggest moving your raid behind her and operating under the assumption she'll knock them backwards, because it does seem to be the case in the majority of situations. If you've got more input, feel free to add it!



I normally offtank this fight as a warrior and put my 2nd tank (Druid, pally, or DK) up as the main tank, even if they are slightly less geared.

I do this because:

1) intervene with safeguard talented is an awesome ability. I have helped prevent more wipes on this encounter with that ability alone than I ever thought I would.

2) It basically garuntees that I will have shield wall / last stand available for the frenzy in the case that the MT does die. I can simple taunt off and pop my stuff and buy the raid an additional 10 seconds or so.

3) I can put Vigilance on the other tank for a 3% damage reduction when BoSanc isn't available.

Krashtork
12-03-2008, 09:54 AM
I normally offtank this fight as a warrior and put my 2nd tank (Druid, pally, or DK) up as the main tank, even if they are slightly less geared.

I do this because:

1) intervene with safeguard talented is an awesome ability. I have helped prevent more wipes on this encounter with that ability alone than I ever thought I would.

2) It basically garuntees that I will have shield wall / last stand available for the frenzy in the case that the MT does die. I can simple taunt off and pop my stuff and buy the raid an additional 10 seconds or so.

3) I can put Vigilance on the other tank for a 3% damage reduction when BoSanc isn't available.

Horacio
12-03-2008, 10:52 AM
Interesting insight Krash. I will be doing this fight this week with a prot warrior OT and having his Vigilence will be helpful and him intervening me as well during the spike damage events.

Thanks!

Jericho
12-03-2008, 11:01 AM
Intervening without the Safeguard talent is a crap shoot at best. With her frenzied its easily possible for your Offtank to take a good deal of extra damage and die and leave you without an "oh crap" tank for the final percentages.

One tip that I may suggest is having a paladin spec into Divine Guardian (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53530). Either a ret or a holy paladin with DG can extend the fight for a decent amount of time. Hopefully giving your raid enough time to finish her off. If your dps is a tad slow and your tank has already blown their own cooldowns, this is a life saver. The 30% frenzy is one of the longer in the game, and if you can not get her from 30-0 in the 40 seconds you have between web wraps, this is quite useful.

As a raid leader, I have gone as far as to make this talent mandatory for at least 1 of our Paladins in our raid to have at all times. It literally will get you through those moments. As an example, during Patch25 we had 2 healers DC at the same time. We managed to win without them simply due to back to back DG bubbles by two of our three paladins in the raid. Do not overlook the "mini raid shield wall" it will save your rear.

Crystyna
12-03-2008, 11:15 AM
I remember watching the original version you created back on Cenarius. I still have it which began my interest in Loreena McKennitt, actually.

Also, I apologize if you've answered this before, but will there be more HD versions of these videos that will be downloadable in the future?

Ciderhelm
12-03-2008, 11:20 AM
I remember watching the original version you created back on Cenarius. I still have it which began my interest in Loreena McKennitt, actually.

Also, I apologize if you've answered this before, but will there be more HD versions of these videos that will be downloadable in the future?
Most likely there will be downloadable versions in the future (as well as audio downloads via Itunes, etc). I have to finish out 5 movies, get some other small projects done, and finish tidying up our guild website before I can focus on the other formats, though.


Loreena McKennitt is really one of my favorite artists. I'm happy to see I got you started on her. :p

Wickezel
12-03-2008, 11:50 AM
We used Hand of sacrifice during enraged websprays, it helps a lot.

Horacio
12-03-2008, 12:28 PM
Have two priests most likely, one for sure, but no pallys....Guardian spirit is pretty nice and should be adequate for one wrap each. Going with 3 healers and the third will be a tree so HoTs out the wazoo will be up as well.

Elson
12-03-2008, 01:59 PM
Both of the times my guild has done this we've had me(paladin) as the MT. When the frenzy hits I will go through my list of cool downs, sometimes stacking a couple of them. Bubble wall is normally by itself, but stoneform + armor potion is also generally sufficient to survive a webspray, as well as nightmare seed + armor potion. I will also try to Loh right before a webspray as well if it looks like I won't be topped off.

Our dps is low enough however atm that I will run out of tricks and this is when our warrior will taunt her off of me(preferably before I go splat). He will then begin his cool down rotation. Once his cool downs are finished I can still put blessing of sacrifice on him. Also once the changes are made to divine protection/shield etc, I will be able to use divine shield after the warrior taunts off me to give still mini shield wall.


Looking at the two of us combined as one tank this will give us..

2 shield/bubble walls
2 mini shield walls with blessing of sacrifice and divine guardian
2 jewelcrafting trinket cooldowns for extra dodge
1 last stand
2 armor potions
2 nightmare seeds
1 lay on hands.

Our gear as a guild is to the point where we have needed to use every one of these cool downs in order to beat her with the exception of the fact I can't use divine guardian in that way yet until the changes go through
When divine protection no longer causes the 2 minutue forbearance I will also be able to use divine shield after my cool downs are done and give an additional mini shield wall.

Porcini
12-03-2008, 05:28 PM
Did this last night as an OT and had trouble picking up the spiders - they would drop, I'd hit them with a thunderclap, and they will still spread and aggro onto random people. Kind of frustrating >.<

Shatterproof
12-03-2008, 05:55 PM
I've been watching your movies and waiting for the Maexxna video hoping that there was maybe some mechanic we were missing. Our guild has done quite a few attempts on Maexxna and we always die shortly after the frenzy. Our best attempt got Maexxna down to 10%.
I play OT for this fight and I pick up Maexxna immeditaly if the MT dies.
We feel that it is just a lack of dps that we can't kill her. With the DPS we've been bringing we would have to survive 2 or more web wraps after the frenzy to kill her.

Do you think it is realistic to expect our DPS to kill Maexxna before the first post frenzy web wrap? Considering it's only our second week in Naxx and we've only downed 3 bosses so far.

Ciderhelm
12-03-2008, 06:01 PM
I've been watching your movies and waiting for the Maexxna video hoping that there was maybe some mechanic we were missing. Our guild has done quite a few attempts on Maexxna and we always die shortly after the frenzy. Our best attempt got Maexxna down to 10%.
I play OT for this fight and I pick up Maexxna immeditaly if the MT dies.
We feel that it is just a lack of dps that we can't kill her. With the DPS we've been bringing we would have to survive 2 or more web wraps after the frenzy to kill her.

Do you think it is realistic to expect our DPS to kill Maexxna before the first post frenzy web wrap? Considering it's only our second week in Naxx and we've only downed 3 bosses so far.
Off-tank needs to taunt through second web wrap, main tank needs to shield wall through first. It's still pretty difficult w/ a new raid, so don't expect her to die immediately unless your raid gets some lucky crits.

Kazeyonoma
12-03-2008, 06:08 PM
yeh, my guild yesterday with a DK OT, paladin MT, and DPS warrior rotated 3 taunt/shieldwall rotations on her instead of just 2 and barely got her down, all 3 tanks went splat and with <50k health left, the raid just kinda kite/dps/died as they brought her down =x It's still a very tough fight it seems. So much for "lol blizz dropped the ball on raid difficulty. lawlz"

Tavia
12-04-2008, 12:31 AM
Cheers for yet another good video. :)

We have been very confused about the Web Wrap, where she picks a random raid member, and wraps them in a cocoon, and sends them flying to a wall.
We couldn't find the logic as to where the cocoons were flying. Tactics from other places on the internet, states that the Web Wrap target always will fly to where their backs are turned, but after trying the encounter, we realized that it wasn't so.

Since we couldn't find logic, we ended up tanking her more or less in the middle of the room.
We have no troubles at all with downing her, but it would be nice to actually know what the real mechanic behind that attack is.

So my question is (gee it took a long time to get to the question, huh? :D ):
Will the cocoons always fly to the left, of where we enter her room?

All the best regards

/Tavia

Meche
12-04-2008, 12:58 AM
So my question is (gee it took a long time to get to the question, huh? :D ):
Will the cocoons always fly to the left, of where we enter her room?


The wall to the left when you enter the room is covered in web. That webbed area is where wrapped players end up. Exact position is random though I think.

Krashtork
12-04-2008, 04:37 AM
It will always be the webbed wall, although it can be anywhere along the webbed wall.

Delicatesse
12-04-2008, 06:35 AM
I've tanked Maexx in 10man and offtanked in 25man.
Some insights.

- STOP DPS a bit above 30%. Wait for a spray. When spray is over immediately pop all DPS cooldowns/hero/bloodlust and finish her.
- In 25man, she died after the first frenzied spray, in 10man we could not do with less than 2 frenzied sprays. Offtanks taunting off are really useful here.
- An offtank can pick up AND kill the spiders, they have very low HP and damage, DPS turning off from the boss to kill them is a waste of time, especially under 30%. If DPS wants to help, just throw a SoC/Living Bomb/Mind Sear on the boss and that's enough. Don't alter the normal rotation too much.
- If all healers stand in the same spot and paladins heal in fury, little spiders will go in the same direction instead of being scattered around. That makes the tanking easier.

klor
12-04-2008, 06:37 AM
The wall to the left when you enter the room is covered in web. That webbed area is where wrapped players end up. Exact position is random though I think.

Actually, its always a straight linear direction from the boss and where you are standing. Thats why everyone should stack on the same side with a wall close behind you if you were to draw a straight line from the boss, to you. This makes it easy for ranged to turn, nuke the web, then turn back and dps the boss.

Ciderhelm
12-04-2008, 06:55 AM
Actually, its always a straight linear direction from the boss and where you are standing. Thats why everyone should stack on the same side with a wall close behind you if you were to draw a straight line from the boss, to you. This makes it easy for ranged to turn, nuke the web, then turn back and dps the boss.

I'd suggest you watch the movie in this thread where the first web wrap is to the far, far left and a later one is to the far, far right. ;)

Tytos
12-04-2008, 08:43 PM
Did this last night as an OT and had trouble picking up the spiders - they would drop, I'd hit them with a thunderclap, and they will still spread and aggro onto random people. Kind of frustrating >.<
I had this same problem. Next time i'm going to try to hit them with SW first and then use Thunderclap to pick up the strays.

When using thunderclap first if I miss any trying to spin and nail the rest with SW is rather difficult. Having the healers stacking on top of each other should help as well.

Ciderhelm
12-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Added 25-man notes.

Delicatesse
12-05-2008, 01:19 AM
I think the problem with offtanking the spiders is that the floor is not horizontal, but skewed somewhat. TC/SW only hits targets on a horizontal plane - mobs that are under/below your level will not be hit. It's pretty annoying to pick those spiders up, but fortunately they can't kill anyone.

Horacio
12-05-2008, 07:44 AM
I'm in a bit of a quandry right now with this fight likely coming up tonight. I had lined up a solid mage and a weak boomkin to compliment a DK, awesome rogue, and a very good Enh shaman for DPS with 2 tanks, 3 healers. The mage offered up his slot to another rogue who, while equally awesome, is not ranged.

For this fight in particular, with Maexxena sticking people to the walls, is this going to be doable?

Illuminatii
12-05-2008, 07:49 AM
With one ranged DPS it's probably doable, but i'm not sure how much fun that's going to be. I'm also not sure if melee are able to attack the cocoon's, but even if they can it's probably too much of a DPS loss to have one of them running around anyways.

Edit:
Having your OT taunt off of you when your CDs are up before the 2nd web wrap is a big plus.

Horacio
12-05-2008, 07:57 AM
Yeah, and we have a prot warrior OT so it shouldn't be an issue there. His gear needs work though but I think we have enough DPS to rip her apart at the end. I'll probably have him come around to the side and be ready but I'm going to try and CD through all of it.

Can also have one of the priests throw a holy fire at the cocoon or the shammy turn and shock it to help out the boomkin.

Ciderhelm
12-06-2008, 08:51 AM
Added low-resolution and embedded 25-man notes.

Rhiannon
12-10-2008, 03:50 AM
One thing that may confuse viewers is that you refer to two abilities as "web wrap" both in the video and in some of the posts. The coccoon ability on 1 (or 2 in 25) players is the web wrap, the raid wide incapacitate is the "web spray".

Edit: oops, didn't see you had posted that in the first post!

One thing I told my DPS to do was to make a /tar web wrap macro to pick up the coccoons as quickly as possible to nuke them down.

rhastafarian
12-12-2008, 09:57 AM
Last night I off tanked this fight. As a paladin it makes sense to be the one to pick up the adds.

The issue I ran into is that the little buggers ignored me. I had out consecrate every time they dropped, I managed to hit the majority of them with a hammer at least once and I hit 3 with my shield once. Consistently the majority of them took off for random people and I had to go around individually saving people.

Has anyone found an effective way to pick these adds up? Next time I plan to try a saronite bomb, and an admantium grenade as well, but do not feel to hopeful.

sys
12-14-2008, 12:10 PM
I went last night on a trip to Naxx w/ my X guild and we kept wiping on this boss. I actually recomended the strategy u have on this video. This was previous to actually seeing your video. They shot it down and I got cussed out. They actually skipped this boss instead of giving it a shot. So I say thank you because now I know that what I recomended does work. My gratitude to u.

~SYS~

Solithaira
12-15-2008, 03:27 PM
Last night I off tanked this fight. As a paladin it makes sense to be the one to pick up the adds.

The issue I ran into is that the little buggers ignored me. I had out consecrate every time they dropped, I managed to hit the majority of them with a hammer at least once and I hit 3 with my shield once. Consistently the majority of them took off for random people and I had to go around individually saving people.

Has anyone found an effective way to pick these adds up? Next time I plan to try a saronite bomb, and an admantium grenade as well, but do not feel to hopeful.

I noticed this myself, and I have a theory on what the problem is. I think that when the adds spawn, the kinda run forward a little bit as part of their "spawning" animation. So if you drop a consecrate (in my case a Death and Decay) exactly where they spawn, it doesn't actually build up any threat. After the first wipe I found that if I delayed the D&D drop by a little, i actually built up the appropriate amount of threat and I could get most of them to run towards me.

Horacio
12-15-2008, 03:51 PM
Yes: have everyone pile up right under her butt. They shoot out of there crazy fast and can get out of consecrate before it ever ticks. They do little damage and the AoE (we used a DK) will get them off the peeps before they do any meaningful damage. If you spread out, they'll take off to a healer and zoom out of the AoE before it ticks on them sometimes. If you leave DPSers out to go peel people off the walls, they won't have enough global threat on the boss to attract any little spiders.

Kathvely2
12-15-2008, 04:01 PM
Has anyone found an effective way to pick these adds up? Next time I plan to try a saronite bomb, and an admantium grenade as well, but do not feel to hopeful.


I noticed this myself, and I have a theory on what the problem is. I think that when the adds spawn, the kinda run forward a little bit as part of their "spawning" animation. me.

I noticed this as well. I prefer OT’ing Maexxna just because of these guys. The spiders will have a decent-high threat on random players when they spawn.

As a war OT I do the following:
Stand directly behind Maexxna
Have “v” clicked to see health bars.
Watch the timer… but the key is to wait until 1 second after you can see their health bars. If you react to fast you will waste your abilities, do 0 damage, gain 0 threat. Gage a proper distance to minimize the chances of wasting shockwave while maximizing the cone attack and hitting ALL spiders just as they are about to spread out.
Shockwave
Thunderclap
Demoshout

If the raid aoe is awake you just made everyones life very easy. If not run around and tuant or kill. NEVER aoe taunt.

**Note to MTing warriors. The only way to hit the spawning spiders with shockwave is to run into Maexxnas body. I tried this a few times… it didn’t really work out.

Kierlya
12-22-2008, 02:52 AM
We managed to easily get through this fight with 2 prot pallys and divine protection. the 50% less damage for 12 secs made it easy to heal through and at the end the other pally would taunt and do the same. 30ish seconds of basically normal dmg the raid downed her no problem.

Additionally we theorized that a holy pally could HoSacrifice the MT and beacon themselves and the MT would take 30% less dmg. The downfall to that is that Beacon works off of effecitve healing only thus potentially killing the holy pally.

We have yet to try this but of anyone does be sure the other healers are not fully healing the tank or the holy pally will die for sure. Let me know if anyone tries this.

Bullie
01-02-2009, 07:08 AM
Ciderhelm! I just want to thank you for your excellent movies. The guild I belong to (MT in it) just started raiding and last night we downed all the bosses in the nasty spiderwing. In my opinon that would not have happened without the help from the vids. Tonight all the bosses in Plague-wing go the same way.

Please keep the movies coming. Best help ever.

raginggab
01-03-2009, 01:44 AM
Hi !

first thank you soo much at tankspot for all of your video they are really great ! :)

Sorry if my question is a newb one... but what add on do you use to show in the bottom of your screen

SHIELD SLAM READY NOW!
REVENGE READY NOW!

etc etc etc ...

thanks in advance :)

Asren
01-08-2009, 09:59 AM
With one ranged DPS it's probably doable, but i'm not sure how much fun that's going to be. I'm also not sure if melee are able to attack the cocoon's, but even if they can it's probably too much of a DPS loss to have one of them running around anyways.


My guild barely started Naxx and when we did Maexxna we had a mage or a caster on the Cocoons.

About 40 percent the mage died and we were without someone that knew what they were doing. So I picked up on the Web Wraps as a Warrior OT. Melee can target them and they are fairly simple to kill

Toede
01-08-2009, 10:27 AM
We havn't had many problems with her until she enrages, I am sitting on about 31.5K buffed with 2 healers and sometimes in that 4 seconds I would get wiped out pretty good. A trick we use to help save the tanks life in the web spray is if you have a shaman, right before it, drop your elemental, which will taunt and take a smack or 2, saving that many extra hits on the tank. It has worked well for us.

Alexx
01-15-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm a bit biased here, but as a druid tank I feel like the Maexxna fight is one of the best opportunities for us to shine.

First, our very high hp pools give us a better chance to live through the web spray. A good druid MT will should have 27-29k armor and 40-45k+hp raid buffed, which is a very nice buffer for healers during the spray.

Second, since Barkskin - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=22812) can be used in feral form and every minute, we can use it every 2nd spray to reduce damage by 20% during the stun. The damage reduction isn't as big as Shield Wall, but the shorter cooldown makes it useable multiple times throughout the fight.

Third, druids who spec into Primal Tenacity - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33957) take a further 30% less damage during the spray (which is a stun, not an incapacitate Web Spray - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=54125) ). While not the most popular pve talent, Primal Tenacity really shines during these moments, especially when paired with Barkskin, since it provides the only way for us to effectively mitigate damage when stunned (and alot of mobs in wotlk seem to stun for some reason). This is in addition to Protector of the Pack - Spell - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57877), which provides an additional 12% damage reduction.

So in the end, you have a meat wall with 45k hp taking the hits during the web spray, and mitigating the after-armor damage by up to an additional 62%. With some effective heals-over-time and someone keeping the poisons off, Druid tanks make this fight trivial.

bosmir
01-19-2009, 04:01 AM
these movies it has to be said are genious ! the best ive seen very helpful indeed. thanks very much and keep up the great work :)

Injustice
02-02-2009, 04:52 AM
I wanted to make note here that a prot pally can use divine protection the moment before the webwrap and taunt to hold threat and take no damage. You will want to have a simple macro for removing the bubble after the taunt duration expires: /cancelaura divine shield. (do not try to have the bubble the taunt and the removal all in one macro, it doesn't work, you need 3 seperate comands) I have used this trick on many fights, its a little dificult to execute, but when done properly will save your raid. I would suggest practicing on some simple mobs with another person on the threat table before going strait into a 10 or 25 man with it, because conversly it can wipe your raid too.

Pallies don't die... we just feign death REALLY well.

SugeGnight
02-02-2009, 05:43 PM
Question...Does Anti-magic shell help absorb any of the damage fromthe web spray or is it too difficult to time?

Injustice
02-03-2009, 01:22 AM
I'm not certain about the rest of the raid but the only damage I remember taking while tanking this was physical, we never went for nature resist buffs or anything either. you could easily get your anti magic shield off if you have dbm running, i'm just not sure it would do anything for you.

Senti
02-10-2009, 10:59 AM
This is a painful, painful boss even a couple months later. I'd say that it's almost essential to stop DPS at 35% wait for a wrap and then go from there. Even then without massive DPS you won't take out 30-35% in 40 seconds thus you have to use the taunting strategy which at worse ends up being a 'sacrifice the OT' strategy. For our runs thus far we've had to rely on Army of the Dead which while not recommended can be used a back up strategy if Cider's isn't working out for you. AotD will be your OT in that case and when doing that it's advisable that melee DPS back up before the wrap. I will also say however that this idea can just as easily be used as a 3rd tank if you simply have a DPS shortage for whatever reason and I will not that the activation/cast time for AotD is long enough that it may not be the most reliable strategy.

jlafleur
02-10-2009, 11:55 AM
Main tank takes normal damage from melee attacks and nature damage from poison shock (frontal cone). Assuming no one is in front of boss, then they take normal damage from adds and nature damage from web wrap.

Stack hots on tank, cleanse poisons asap and save CDs for enrage and time them for web spray. Its one of the few fights in naxx that I like to stack stam and armor for. We don't bother to stop dpsing and it hasn't been an issue.

Senti
02-10-2009, 10:05 PM
Stopping DPS is a safety net that ensures that a group with good DPS only takes 1 enraged web wrap.

Exocuter
02-23-2009, 09:45 PM
Guardian Spirit is also useful on the tank during a frenzied Web Spray.

Great Video Ciderhelm!!

Bloodychains
04-09-2009, 04:59 AM
One of the strategies my guild used was during her enrage the mt pally would buble and me the ot would switch over until dead after around 10% and then the pally mt would pick him back up. We just wanted to see i this could work because one thing that are mt healler was a preist so they wanted me to pop that stoneform from getting poisens on me at all.