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View Full Version : DK Loot Priority on 1 handed Tanking Weapons?



veneretio
12-02-2008, 02:37 PM
At this point in time, I've found no compelling evidence that Dual Wield tanking is superior to using a 2 hander. As such in the outline for my guild's loot priorities, I've included the following:

- Warriors and Paladins will get priority on 1 handed Tanking weapons over Death Knights

Now, I'd rather not have this thread derailed completely into a whether or not DW tanking is viable or not. (although I realize that this can't be removed completely from the discussion) And instead focus on:

1. Does your guild have similar priorities?
2. If yes, what's the response been like? If no, what's the response been like?

Hoping to get some response from people that have directly experienced the impact of saying DK get shafted or DK get equal priority.

Ion
12-02-2008, 02:40 PM
Eh, there's not a lot of tanking weapons going around...if it's an axe we generally give it priority to our orc warriors, otherwise we let our DW Frost blood elf DK have equal priority (I personally passed the red sword to him because it was more of a sidegrade over my tanking axe at the time and he didn't really have a decent 1h tanking weapon yet).

Optimoos
12-02-2008, 02:43 PM
As GM as well as MT of my guild, the priority for loot is, I get it all :D

In all seriousness, I tend to agree with your assessment. Yes, DW tanking is possible and perhaps even preferred once at a certain gear level. I don't think many are at that gear level yet, and I know nobody is in my guild. If a DK tank wants to farm a red sword of courage and an eternally folded blade, all the power too them, nice start. Until I see a DK who is uncritable as well as parry expertise capped (or at least very well on the way) then the 1h weapons will go to warriors and paladins.

Now, if I have a dedicated DK tank/ot, and some fury war/ret pallies in the raid, I will gladly give the 1h to the dk before it goes offspec to the others.

Lexxaa
12-02-2008, 08:30 PM
1 handers i thought were pretty much proven to be not as good for a DK as a 2 hander
less threat and all that ?

either way 1 handers are defaulted to folk with shields - the Dk's can enjoy the 2handers, plus there seems a lot more 2 hander options for them than 1 handers anyway

edit** i should have been more specific - as far as i heard from the DK's in my guild there are a lot of attacks relying on weapon damage hence 2 handers would stand out, or perhaps a slow 1 hander...

theres an EJ thread somewhere going into the pros and cons of SW vs 2H

DeviousOne
12-07-2008, 10:09 PM
We have enough tanks in our guild that any new DK's that are around probably won't get a tanking spot, and certainly would not get priority or probably any bids on tanking items that drop. Nothing against DK's, we much rather prefer our current tanks. They work well for us. Or me. Since I'm a tank too. Anyway...
DK's get to dps in our raids and steal my offset fury gear. They should be happy with that.

Armstrong
12-08-2008, 07:10 AM
I'd say just as long as you have some equivalent rule to ensure that death knight tanks also get priority on 2H weapons, particularly the ones with massive amounts of strength and stamina.

Also be aware that while most DKs will use 2Hers for both DPS and tanking, DKs who are required to switch between tanking and DPS during the same raid should have a separate weapon for each role because the Runeforging enchants alone make enough of a difference to warrant it.

bludwork
12-08-2008, 07:18 AM
Any sane DK will use a 2H, it shouldn't even be an issue. Prot paladins and warriors should get priority over 1H tanking weapons since they can't use 2Hs

Satrina
12-11-2008, 04:36 AM
I look at problems like these from a different angle: If you need to establish loot priorities, you have the wrong people in your guild.

ttocs
12-11-2008, 08:10 AM
I look at problems like these from a different angle: If you need to establish loot priorities, you have the wrong people in your guild.

This is slightly derailing the thread a bit, but Satrina, you wouldn't have happened to have read Good to Great, have you? Your comment reminded me of a very good chapter in that book.

Lore
12-11-2008, 09:22 AM
It's kind of a slippery issue either way. You can give 1hander priority to Warriors and Pallies, but on the other side of the coin, you can give 2hander priority to DPS Warriors/Pallies/Death Knights/occasionally Hunters and soon Feral Druids. Personally, I would lean towards letting the DK tank decide which he wants priority on (if he wants to dual wield, he doesn't get twohanders, and vice versa).

If I had to give an across-the-board loot priority one way or the other though, I'd go your route.

Ray
12-11-2008, 09:33 AM
The way our guild does it who ever has the DKP and bids on it gets it.

That aside, I dont think you should or can bar out a DK from getting loot priority on either. As most DK will be at best OT in most long time guilds, they will need a good 2H to spec for DPS when not tanking. Personally, im good friends with all the tanks in my guild and I have passed and will pass 1H to them first (our main raid tank core) but if theres a new guy I have no quams taking a 1H from them as I will most likely go back to DW tanking once I get good weapons. The problem with DW tanking is that you need to good weapons to make it work, and if you block them from them then its never giving it a chance.

veneretio
12-12-2008, 08:17 AM
An update to my own situation with DW DKs. They're all 540 Defense now. Yup, it was hard and guess what? They don't want to DW anymore. Every DK I've ever encountered that wanted to DW did it out of Laziness more b/c 540 Defense was too hard. :/

Such is the evolution of the class.

That being said, you've given me something to think about Satrina. I walked into this guild over a year ago and when I did there was loot priorities already there. I wonder if changing things at this point is even worth it though.

Kavtor
12-12-2008, 08:32 AM
In 3.0.8, DK's get a weapon run for defense, but it only works on 2 handers. I think it's a pretty clear indication of their intentions. While Blizzard's intentions don't always reflect the reality of mechanics, I think it's safe to say that going against those intentions leaves you open to future changes making the loot obsolete.

If you have to use loot priorities, I wouldn't give DK's access to one handed tank weapons first.

ibetank
12-12-2008, 08:43 AM
We use loot council and NO ONE class gets priority over any other class.

At this time we have 4 tanks, 2warrior, 1pally and 1 druid. They are not planning on having a dedicated dk tank at least not that i know of. we have a dk that can spec and tank if we want that but all that being said the question isn't really priority but how your guild handles loot in the first place.

The theory of gearing up 1 tank over all the others has sorta gone by the wayside with the lack of comitiment nowadays. gearing up all tanks at an equal rate will save issues in the future when that 1 has to work late or gets hit by a car or leaves the guild.

Sorry i guess i did derail your post a bit but i would say if a weapon drops
it goes to the tank that can use it the best/most at that moment in time.

just my 2 cents worth.

PS at this time i wouldn't want to run with a dw dk 2hander is the spec to go thats why they are coming out with the specific rune just fo 2 handers.

Ray
12-12-2008, 09:29 AM
With the changes to Runestrike, DW will become much more attractive and its threat should be much much better.

The whole runeforge with +def is to make up for there (blizz) mistake. I shouldnt be "forced" to gem all my slots w/ +def. As of right now, that is the case with no LOS (even with the new runes) on this changing by much.

All that said, I will be picking up both 1H tanking weapons from Naxx so that I have them, and I will be paying DKP for them.

Ceravantes
12-12-2008, 12:36 PM
In all the guilds I have been with, the tanking group has always been very tight knit. I have only ever come into an established guild once, but felt very welcomed by my fellow tanks, regardless of the class. I have always discussed lo, as far as what we are most looking to upgrade, where our weaknesses are etc. with the other tanks I run with, and we ahve all, to some extent, agreed on some sort of path for drops to go.

I would never take a drop from one of my core tanks if it was a big upgrade.

Wasshoi
12-19-2008, 03:35 AM
Loot priorities are best avoided, i tend to believe that you have to treat people like adults and have them sort it out. And if the DK can actually win it, its safe to assume that he/she 'earned' it? (Obviously doesnt always work... such is life)

But my guess is there 'may' be some bitching and moaning from the DKs side, though you shouldnt worry too much about it since the policy does have its merits and is actually in the best interest of the guild/raid.....

And do remind them that its just loot, chances are itll drop again.

Krenian
12-19-2008, 04:34 AM
It would honestly depend on the situation.

I know that part of making dual wield viable by a certain way, that certain one handers are needed (Aka Broken Promise.). I've been personally outrolled on it by my Prot Warrior and an offspec Holy Paladin by DKP and I have no issues with it. DKP is DKP. But I will not deny that the sword is a great weapon for the use of dual wield tanking.

Also, even with the glyph coming in on 3.0.8, I'm not certain that it will 'kill' dual wield tanking. It will make two handed tanking easier to reach the cap, but dual wield tanking will allow you to get to the cap without the defense enchant and focus on avoidance instead (2 2% parry enchants is what I'm thinking.)

Also, come 3.0.8, Dual wield tanking is actually becoming MORE viable due to Runestrike threat being increased as well as Howling Blast having no CD. This allows the DK tank to be an excellent AoE tank (It > Ps > Bs > Bs > HB > HB > HB > HB comes to mind right now.) without the problems that most of their weapon damage is negated due to most of the strikes used is considered to be weapon damage.

I'm not convinced. In my guild, the only reason the Prot Warrior got what he got is we want our tanks to be solid. I believe the rule's being thrown out as of next week, then DKP rules the system. Our tanks are significantly geared up now and I know I'm getting pirority on all tanking loot (Or the ones I want) that goes offset so I should be building up a decent tank set. Which means I'm going to purely focus on getting a dual wield build going at the same time and testing it.

Tests just need to be done and no one is in the game far enough to really test the gear (Unless every tanking piece I linked dropped for them, they're probably missing some core pieces.)

Now, if you were talking on a DPS view that DKs only are allowed to take two handers...It would again on what kind of DK you have. Tri-Spec has been proven to work, and I have personally tested it and it competes with the best specs I've so far tried. (I really wanna try Patchwerk now to see how much of a benchmark I'll have considering when I did KZ I easily beat my Hunter friend by a significant amount. This does NOT ever happen on that fight with him.) If your DK is a dual wielding tri-spec DPS, I really wouldn't put that restriction. But we're not talking about DPS :D

loquatious
12-19-2008, 04:52 AM
I looked at broken promise I would absolutely pass it to a Paladin. DPS cant make up for the missed heroic strikes for a warrior.

I think loot prio is fine Main Spec > off spec, armor to its class, and "smart" item distribution. Yes a priest has use for +spell hit (Razuvious for ex) but that Mage and Lock live and die by it daily.

brain9h
12-23-2008, 11:38 AM
On our guild we do not allow people to ramble about loot. If someone does not like our ruling, too bad, they will have swallow it. (we use loot council)

Kedearian
12-23-2008, 10:36 PM
As a DK tank i can tell you from experience that DW Dk's seem to be on the whole worse than 2h tanking dks. They usually make up for poor gear or poor gear choices by having 2 1h tank weapons to get them over the def cap. I've not seen a single DW DK tank that could generate as much threat or take as little damage as a 2h tank. The parry-haste just seems to make them take more damage and more spiky damage. And since their MH is lower damage their specials (which are over 60% of their damage output) is markibly lower.

The only DK's i've seen DW to tank are ones that shouldn't be tanking.

Ked