PDA

View Full Version : Unholy Tank spec Discussion



Rev13
11-21-2008, 06:58 PM
Hope that the "discussion" doesnt insinuate im trying to make a long official drawn out thread and all, rather I would like to offer my ideas and ask some questions on some proposed builds.

First off, I love this toon. Its loads of fun, the mobs run fleeing in terror if they dont die in 3 hits. Im Unholy. I like the sound of having an Unholy Death Tank, it makes me happy :) So thats out of the way.

My conundrum is finding a good tank spec for Unholy. Unholy appears to be the best AoE tanking spec, while also offering good tools for tanking high spell damage bosses and high mitigation bosses due to having a greater majority of their dps come from spell damage. That said, here are my ideas and a brief descriptor of why I went what:

17/0/54 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMVZZfg0I0coxxMRcsut)

My favorite so far. I use Anticipation as a filler for moving down the tree and end up filling it up anways. Being that this builds provides great AoE buffs I'm sure to askew CC and just tank whatever all is in front of me, so why not get as much avoidance as possible? Blood Caked Blade is great and all, but I dont imagine myself relying on my auto attacks as much with an Unholy build, the talent is filled up in case I mess up a rotation and have to wait for runes to come back up. Not a great reason but im stickin with it :)
I forego filling Desecration and instead fill up Dark Conviction, which brings me to my second build:

14/0/57 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMMZZfg0I0coxxVRcsut)

with the points swapped around. EDIT TO ADD: This build has slightly better AoE threat and damage, and plays to the strength of the spec well because Plague Strike has a prominent place in my rotation (as it does in all, but....)

This is my problem. I know not which is preferrable, and seek any thoughts on the subject. Could I hybridize and put 3 in DC and 4 in Desecration?

In addition, are there any viable builds that include Necrosis? Its a talent I like very much.

Thanks TS community

Your neighborhood friendly Death Knight Kayoss (<---"Chaos")

Saturday
11-21-2008, 07:24 PM
Here's a list of things I notice off the bat. Don't expect any kind of coherence ;)

In my experience so far in playing a DK, you never need to fill more than 3 points in Desecration to keep the buff up in any non-solo situation. Two seems lacklustre and five is overkill.

You don't 'need' Outbreak, it feels like wasted points but I guess if you really want bigger Plague Strikes its nice enough.

You definitley DO need Virulence, I'd pretty much say it's essential in any PVE unholy build. Nothing's worse than something missing.

I think you're over-valuing Dark Conviction. Looking at it from a warrior perspective, we used Cruelty because it's easily within reach. DC on the other hand is quite deep and while its always nice to have extra crit, couldn't the points be better used in something else? Improved Icy Touch, for example, is nice if you don't have a warrior/bear/protadin providing a slow and always good for instances.

Rev13
11-21-2008, 07:42 PM
Great ideas. Thank you.

How about this? (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMZ0hZfghI0coxxcocsut[/url)

Also, how about Ravenous Dead? Is it worth it?

Rev13
11-23-2008, 06:47 PM
Bumped for more thoughts

Wyleai
11-23-2008, 08:28 PM
At a minimum, all DK tanks should start with this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZ0xZ0x

What you do after that is up to you.

Arvandor
11-23-2008, 08:45 PM
I'd argue at LEAST another 3 points into frost for improved icy touch.

But Wyleai is correct. 5/5/5 or 5/8/5 or possibly even 5/8/8 (for faster D&D cooldown), then after that, it's pick a tree, dive down it, and get your oh shit buttons; bone shield for UH, lichborne and unbreakable armor for frost, and mark of blood and vampiric touch for blood. Congrats, you have a tank spec =)

I've heard Unholy tanks edge out as the best Dk tanks once you start getting enough avoidance to have 100% uptime on bone shield. But it's all hearsay for me at this point, all I'VE done is tank Nexus a few times =P

Device442
11-24-2008, 12:37 PM
Not to draw this out any further, but I also have been looking into a Unholy tanking spec.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhg0zZcgMIxcogxqozozt)

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhg0zhZ0xMIt0ogxqocouu)

what I came up with.

morkins
11-24-2008, 04:25 PM
Necrosis: This is a good talent for both tanking and DPS. This works with rune strike. Currently, on a single target, rune strike should be your biggest single DPS source while tanking. If not, you dont have enough avoidance. Because of this you absolutely want dirge and the Icy touch glyph. You will be runic power starved when most of your white swings become rune strikes and anything that gives you more runic power, giving you more runic strikes, is important.

Toughness is a must. While you can keep a very high uptime on bone armour and then follow up with IBF, there will be times where you have neither. At these times your damage will spike and armour will help keep you alive. Its always good to explain this dynamic to healers unfamiliar with DK's.

Also on that, you really need to protect your bone armour uptime. With packs try not to let any get behind you. If you do, you will not be able to parry them and your avoidance drops. They will start taking up your bone armour charges at a faster rate.

Desecration: While on a single target, less than 5/5 is serviceable, on AOE you only really have your initial plague strike to trigger it. After that your runes are tied up in aoe abilities for the next 10 seconds and so guaranteeing it at the beginning of AOE is valuable with 5/5. The side benefit of desecration is that it slows mobs in AOE. This gives you more time to react should 'enthusiatic' AOE pull a mob. This is most likely at the beginning of a pull and again puts extra value on 5/5 desecration to make sure its there.

Phoenix
11-25-2008, 09:38 AM
In my experience Blood caked blade and necrosis are talents which are to be avoided if you are not going to use the Duel Wield (trispec) Proc spec. IMO that spec is terrible anyways but thats another discussion. The reasoning behind this is that very little of our damage is in white damage. All our abilities are instant and therefore make up for most of our damage so those are points that can easily be moved around.

Virulence is also almost considered necessary due to spell hit being at 17% while our 2h hit cap as well as special abilities being at 9%. You dont want anything to miss. Missing= wasted time and threat that is lost.

Toughness is another biggee that is just too good to skip. We are talking about a 15% increase in armor. This almost requires point in it for a tanking build.

There are a ton of great things in Unholy...making it almost certain that there will be many different and correct versions of tank builds. For example i have built my tanking build around still having a ghoul available for soloing and mobs that dont cleave, as well as having gargoyle which is one of the best RP dumps available for a single mob(boss).

Also while Desecration is a cool looking spell and does provide a 5% boost in damage I find that you either end up getting AMZ or Desecration. There is certainly room for both but again that means sacrificing talents in other places.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZ0xZfghI00kreoRcsut) is the spec im looking at. The reason behind this spec is that I will be playing the role of dps until called upon to tank, and even then it will be in an OT position most of the time.

If I were looking at a MT position the build would change to incorporate that, and would thus appear as Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZ0xZcghI00oGeVocsut)

This build incorporates AMZ as well as 5/5 desecration. Even still there are points that are available to move around. For example some people would opt to put points in Vicious strikes over Outbreak. That is fine but the way i justify points in there is due to pest and BB being core in our aoe abilities. Lastly, some would say that 5/5 in desecration is overkill...and i tend to agree for the most part. So taking out one or two points would allow you to place them in imp icy touch or even unholy aura.

Lastly I have noticed that with end game progression and tankingin mind it is getting harder and harder to place such a high value on desecration. Most fights have us moving around so the slowing mechanic is not very usefull and i find myself putting points in it simply for the 5% more damage. One could aregue that the points in desecration would be better served in imp icy touch...the more i think about it the more i am inclined to agree. There is also some serious theorycrafting going on over in EJ's think tank and most would argue that imp icy touch coupled with unholy aura would be points better spent than in desecration. If that is the case the the build would be Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZhxZcghI00oGe0Rcsut)

Until more parses and charts are available to confirm which points are better i will be using this as a MT build.

Synapse
11-25-2008, 10:17 AM
Necrosis: This is a good talent for both tanking and DPS. This works with rune strike. Currently, on a single target, rune strike should be your biggest single DPS source while tanking. If not, you dont have enough avoidance. Because of this you absolutely want dirge and the Icy touch glyph. You will be runic power starved when most of your white swings become rune strikes and anything that gives you more runic power, giving you more runic strikes, is important.This is huge. Rune strike on Necrosis is insane. Can I have evidence? Testing it myself is beyond my reach for the next month or so.

Phoenix
11-25-2008, 01:07 PM
Again very little of our damage is based on white damage..you are talking about dumping 5 points into a talent for 10% damage as shadow on one strike. Will you see an increase in dps? Perhaps, but that depends on where you pull other talents out to take this. I dont have the link anymore but over at Ej's Think Tank it was discovered that points in necrosis and blood caked blade does increase dps, but the increase was very insignificant.

Synapse
11-25-2008, 01:11 PM
Again very little of our damage is based on white damage..you are talking about dumping 5 points into a talent for 10% damage as shadow on one strike. Will you see an increase in dps? Perhaps, but that depends on where you pull other talents out to take this. I dont have the link anymore but over at Ej's Think Tank it was discovered that points in necrosis and blood caked blade does increase dps, but the increase was very insignificant.
As unholy dps white damage accoutns for about a third of my damage, so yes. But tanking I do think having runic strike running on most white swings is..very likely actually. it's a very high damage move(i see 3.5k crits as unholy at level 73) off the gcd, and as such something they can spam if they're tanking. Having necrosis/ cake affect rune strikes inflates their threat gen value a lot for unholy tanks.

Phoenix
11-25-2008, 01:19 PM
A third of your damage as white damage? I agree that rune strike is one of the biggest hardest hitting strikes we have and in tanking it will be used to excess, but where are you going to pull the talent points from to get it? What do you give up? Lastly i have a hard time believing that a third of the damage you do as unholy is white damage...maybe when DWing but even then...Im not saying you are wrong..on the contrary maybe it is myself who has not been paying attention to the white damage read-outs. Ill do a few runs and see what I come up with.

Device442
11-25-2008, 02:33 PM
are we still bound to the 40% speed attack speed increase after parry?

Phoenix
11-25-2008, 03:34 PM
are we still bound to the 40% speed attack speed increase after parry?

Yes. If a bos parries your attack he gains the 40% attack speed.

morkins
11-26-2008, 01:47 PM
This is huge. Rune strike on Necrosis is insane. Can I have evidence? Testing it myself is beyond my reach for the next month or so. Its quite easy to confirm on live. Just grab a mob, let it beat on you, once you get a dodge/parry then autoattack/runestrike....you will see a necrosis report. Its not really 'huge'. If you are tanking a single target then maybe runestrike+white will approach 50% of damage. Thats a big maybe. In that case then necrosis is worth ~1% damage per point depending on how it interacts with spell debuffs. That's the best case. When Im not tanking, white damage is consistantly below 30%. On multiple target tanking/DPS, its even lower. So it's a nice talent but Ive not found the points to go more then 2/5 in it.
Yes. If a bos parries your attack he gains the 40% attack speed. The last data Ive seen (over at EJ) strongly suggested this wasnt the case anymore. Are you referring to very recent research and if so, could you tell us where to find it please?

On AMZ: Its a nice talent and Id like to have it but I cant justify 5 points in magic suppression at that level to get it. The magic mitigation of bone armour and IBF are enough for me so far. If they weren't, Id be seriously looking at resist gear for that fight. I can see the argument as a 100% raid tank but right now Im in 5 mans/heroics and it's too specialised.

I find the same situation with Reaping. In 5 man runs almost every pull is multitarget so Im finding Im using blood runes and have no real use for death runes. For 100% raid DPS I'll be taking this talent.

Saturday
11-26-2008, 02:44 PM
Quoting a blue: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Parry Hasting - Was it removed? (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13129903275&pageNo=1&sid=1#5)


The reduced swing time for a creature's next swing after it successfully parries an attack still exists in the game, and the vast majority of all creatures in WoW use the mechanic. Note that we have the ability to flag specific creatures to not be affected by this mechanic if we so choose for balance purposes. An example of such a creature would be Patchwerk, a very high melee damage dealing raid boss.

Rev13
11-27-2008, 04:27 AM
I try to stay away from auto attacks as much as possible in my Unholy spec. I find that if I have to auto attack for any period of time I might be doing something wrong. There should always be a deathcoil to be had, or maybe even pop a blood tap and get a free rune. I do everything I can to keep from auto attacking. (<---thats right, right?) Not that I dont auto attack between attacks when the timer is up, but if I busy myself with specials then it shouldnt matter. This matters even more if im tanking, the thought of threat loss scares the hell out of me:

"Rev why are you auto-attacking"

"waiting for my runes to come back up"

Thats a situation I want to avoid. As such, talents like BCB and Necro I avoid unless im going to be DPSing mainly and OTing as needed.

As far as spec, I'll be 12/3/56 when I hit 80 and I will drop Unholy Aura and fill Toughness after I ding it. Im tired of all the other DKs lol'ing at the slow Unholy DK while they get to my quest items/kills before me :(

Synapse
11-27-2008, 05:01 AM
Quoting a blue: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Parry Hasting - Was it removed? (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13129903275&pageNo=1&sid=1#5)
Thanks, that answers a lot and is relevant to shut up *so* many people who are saying the opposite >.<

Nerlth
11-27-2008, 06:42 AM
Click (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/40694-death-knight-aoe-spec-mt-spec-rotations.html)

The UH spec on here gets the job done. You could move a few points here and there but it has all of the basics.

Síra
11-30-2008, 06:13 PM
Don't get how most of you do your Unholy specs without going for Lichborne, realy.
Unholys whole tanking lies mostly on your bone shield, the more you can keep that active on you the better. Popping Lichborne while having an active Bone shield up effectivly increase the time your bone shield is active and lower the "gap" you have from the time that your current Bone sheild goes of till you can reapplie one.

Ontop of that, getting 25% more avodiance for 15sec is masive! Also worth saying that while under the Lichborne effect, you can heal yourself with DC.

This is my unholy buid, that have worked verry well for MT naxx so far: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0vZhg0zZbg0Ix0ogxoRcout)

Few thought i'v been pondering about tho is for one bladed armor vs. Desecration. What's best for tanking. I'v been doing some small tests but need more looking into it before i can say for sure. Maby anywon else have done some testing and got a good awnser to this question?

About Magic suppression and AmZ, alot of mixed feelings about these talents. Personaly i like them. first of cause i like to know that when i pop my Anti magic shell that i'm completely immune to all magic damage for that duration, gives a nice feeling of safty in this "OH SHIT" CD. The extra 5% lowerd magic damage is also nice and will overall in long fights that consists of magic damage ( witch most does these days ) save some mana for the healers, witch is allways good. After going these 5 points in Magic suppression you naturaly go for AmZ aswell, i'm a fan of the ability, first of for beeing able to "shield" your healer or raid in realy bad situations or as a second ability to lower damage from high magic abilitys hitting you, sutch as breaths and things alike.

Arhk
12-01-2008, 03:55 PM
I just wanted to bump this discussion since I'm currently looking into respeccing from Frost to Unholy.

I'm having difficulty figuring out where to put points mid tree and still have enough points for 10 (Parry and Bladed Armor) in Blood and 5 in Frost (Toughness).

Can any Death Knights with Naxx/Heroic tank experience on Live post their Unholy specs?

Njordus
12-02-2008, 07:17 AM
I've only tanked Heroics, did my first one within an hour of dinging 80. I simply cannot see why Frost is better than Unholy for tanking.

As of dinging 80 I had 40% avoidance between parry, dodge, and miss. Add in Blade Barrier and that's up to 50%~. Pretty good for Bone shield.

What it comes down to really, is Bone Shield vs. UA. Everything else is negligible or easily gotten by any spec (i.e. Toughness).

UA does nothing for spells, and I don't think the math works out to 40% mitigation for the duration.

Bone Shield has 3 second internal cooldown. With the glyph (you *are* glyphing it, right) it lasts 15 seconds minimum. It really ends up lasting longer than that depending on avoidance. Also, you can pre-cast it at the beginning of the fight and chain 2 at the start, something you can't do with UA.

So with Frost, you have 38 seconds of guarenteed mitigation (how much from UA I'm not positive on). With Unholy, you have 27 seconds of guarenteed mitigation, minimum 40% reduction, with the possibility of up to 100% uptime.

Keep in mind that magic damage is a large part of many bosses. For example, the first Heroic I tanked was UK, and all 3 bosses have magic damage, and we would not have been able to down the final boss without AMS and AMZ (his shout is shadow damage lawls).

As unholy you also provide good buffs (UH aura and Ebon) that cannot be applied by any other class, as opposed to the lolwindfury Frost buff. 6 points to have a shaman buff is a big waste imo.

The AoE threat is better as Unholy, the magic mitigation destroys Frost, and with bone shield you have equal to or better than mitigation than Frost.

My 8/8/55 build : Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xhZhxZfghh0bkreoRcsut)

ttocs
12-02-2008, 07:56 AM
I've tanked somewhere around 30ish heriocs, and OT'd 10man naxx/sartharion with this:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0vZhxbzZfghIx0ogc00cout)

It's got the 3 basics, Lichborne, extra hit for spells, and extra AP for threat. You can take points out of impurity or outbreak for Unholy Aura.

Device442
12-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Dual Wield Unholy.. been messing around with this one.

Still I think by going DW as a tank your gonna have a heck of a time balancing your stats, but with itemization the way it is you never know it just might work out, by sticking with DW you force the hit proc's on your diseases faster.. would this reset the timer as all locks know and love about DoT's?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhxczhZcxhhxzkgxa0csuz




(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhxczhZcxhhxzkgxa0ckud)

Gorgamesh
12-23-2008, 03:40 PM
I'm playing around with MoB/UH spec and i must say I enjoy it much. I just tried to get best out of all 3 trees which left me with a lot of "oh snap" buttons to chose from.

I will be droping Outbreak for Virulence for sure next time I respec and perhaps I'll switch desecration for magic supression and AMZ and see how it goes, although I really like to have the peace of mind that when some trigger happy DPS will somehow overaggro me I will have some time to grab the add before it goes out desecrated ground, also DPS buff is really nice for melee.

Condemned
02-23-2009, 02:03 PM
For the most part, alot of DK tanks I see are using this:

5/11/55

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhg0zZfg0I0coxxVocsut)

Lichborne is retardedly good, fits the 5/5/5+56 rule, having the ghoul pet really won't help you tank, possibly save your life on account of [Death Pact] but thats about it Anti-Magic Zone is very under rated, on boss fights like Sapphiron it's EXTREMELY awesome to have, especially as an OT not tanking anything or the MT, I personally drop it when we hide behind the Iceblocks because blizzards pound us there... enough with the sapph strats >.> but this spec, I've found amazing for all tanking, hope it helps :)

Inaara
02-23-2009, 02:27 PM
This is my Unholy spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000003050000000 000000000000000000235230030100105253001003133151&glyph=041112040506

While lichborne is a good talent I don't see how you can view it as a "must have". It lasts for 15 seconds but it has a 3 minute cooldown. Arguing that it allows you to heal yourself is silly. With so many must have talents in the unholy tree it doesn't seem like a good idea to waste 3 talent points that could be used on something like Wandering Plague.

Condemned
02-23-2009, 05:59 PM
Well wandering plague is in there, and i dont see much useful left in unholy, and on bosses like Patchwerk, it's just awesome that he cant even touch you with it up

gadgetknight
02-26-2009, 12:15 PM
at 77 I tanked HoL with this tree, excluding the two points in wandering plague and 1 point in bladed armor.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000003050000000 000000000000000000235202230000105050151003123151&glyph=190902060504&version=9551

it is working out quite well for me

slamboy234
03-25-2009, 12:17 PM
This is my hybrid tank/dps build, the only thing i am unsure about is how necessary the magic shield is since I have not hit 80 yet. but here it is, WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/deathknight/talents.html?tal=235000000000000000000000000305000 00000000000000000000002352300050031152031000031331 51)

Fonziefabio
03-26-2009, 08:09 AM
Here's a WWS log for a patchwerk fight I did.

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/ku2r1hgxflqiy?s=533690-584174&a=x2c0507a)

Necrosis was 7% of my damage. I was taking hatefuls that fight, so I wasn't able to get as many rune strikes as I normally do. Either way, you can scroll around to the different fights (I was MTing) and you can see that Necrosis stayed around 7% of my damage. BCB does about half the damage of what Necrosis does, but it only takes three talent points. This is an oxymoron to most people, but I'm single target unholy specced at the moment. If patch 3.1 wasn't coming, I would be making changes to my spec, but it's just not worth it when it's going to get reset in a few weeks. Here's what I would do for 3.1:

Unholy Single Target Spec (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055020000000000000000000000305000000 0000000000000000000235200335003110203030023103150&glyph=000000000000&version=9722)

Unholy AoE Spec (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000000305000000 0000000000000000000235030330120015203040003133150&glyph=000000000000&version=9722)

This is what I prefer. Personally, I can't stand frost. I don't know why, but I hate it. So I stay unholy.

Kazeyonoma
03-26-2009, 09:48 AM
Talents and Armories should probably go into the HALP! Armory and Talent Suggestions forum.

Please take a minute to read the rules located in my signature or at the top of every forum.

Moved.

Chickenfrier
06-09-2009, 02:58 PM
i really like the the unholy tree for dks and i love to tank ( i have an 80 druid tank/healer) so i decided to look around and see how unholy tanks are doing.

a couple places i went to had some really good points so i made a build:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0050000000000000000000000000005033010 0000000000000000000235230035100015033011003133051&glyph=000000000000&version=9767

This build has the basic 5/5/5 that any dk tank should have.

I also know that i am tanking.. i am not a dps. With this in mind i decided to do the 2 1h thing for 1 main reason. Faster attacks = faster threat. yes i don't do as much damage per attack but again i am not dps i dont care as much about damage as i do about threat. If i have fast constant threat it is better than spikey threat from 2h. So i went into frost and i got lichborne and nerves of cold steel.

With that i also maxed out Necrosis. I with have twice as fast auto attacks and they still go no matter what i am doing so its just again faster constant threat. i Did not want blood caked blade because that is Chance on hit where as necrosis is every auto attack no matter what does additional shadow damage (which again is increased by black ice)

You may also notice that i did 3 points in black ice. This was because 6% constant damage on all frost and shadow damage is better than 5% on one move.

My mind set when delving into unholy was i am an aoe tank. So i got the pestilence glyphs and i put points into morbidity and unholy blight.

I also put the 1 point into corpse explosion. Most people dont get this but i look at it this way. It now costs the same amount of RUNIC power(no longer 1 unholy rune) as death coil. So if i am fighting a group of mobs and one guy dies boom corpse explosion and everyone gets hurt + if another guy dies from it he blows up 2 (woot glyphs).

I have 1 point in desecration just so i can have the slow field because it procs on every plague strike now. not just a chance on hit.

This gives me enough talents to get anti magic shell which is good for those magic fights. Remember i am also coming from a druid tank and i have NO magic resist on him so on this guy i wanted as much as i could get without really giving anything 2 important up.

Some people ask why i put points in wandering plague. Hello i am AoE tank. Pestilence is constantly keeping my diseases up on every mob (due to glyph) so that is a fairly high chance that at least 1 of those disease on one of the mobs with blow up and hit everyone else. Woot free threat.

Let me know what you guys think

coe
06-10-2009, 07:04 AM
I also know that i am tanking.. i am not a dps. With this in mind i decided to do the 2 1h thing for 1 main reason. Faster attacks = faster threat. yes i don't do as much damage per attack but again i am not dps i dont care as much about damage as i do about threat. If i have fast constant threat it is better than spikey threat from 2h. So i went into frost and i got lichborne and nerves of cold steel.

Never tried dual wielding, but I was tanking as Unholy for a long time. If you have will and time to check something yourself: take slow 2 hander, take Scourge Strike talent and check on dummy your threat in comparison to 2 handers and no scourge strike. The thing is, that weapon speed has nothing to do with spiky threat. Look at your normal AoE situation:

DnD (BFU), IT (BU), PS (B), Pest (), Unholy Blight, BS, Scourge Strike spam...

White attacks are only addition. Our main threat comes out from special attacks that are independent on weapon speed. But Scourge Strike depends on weapon damage, that's why 2hander is better for this ability. Also notice that 5 first GCD you will use for stacking dots, nothing close to spiky threat ;)

Another thing is that in current content and bosses with enrage timers, damage that tank can pull out is also quite important. And Scourge Strike is where most damage comes out for Unholy builds.

Btw, Lichborn has been changed lately, it doesn't give anything now (unless you want to self heal with Death Coils).

edit: I also noticed that you don't have Bladed Armor talent, which is worth 600-700 AP depending on gear. This scales with Impurity talent you have and with Frost Presence. Basically, Bladed Armor is a must-have talent for every DK tank ;)

fenris1325
06-26-2009, 06:17 AM
here is a link to my characters current tanking build, The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Baelgun&cn=Spikerdoodle&gn=Jade)

I currently tank as OT in both 10 and 25 man Ulduar, and am MT for some 25 naxx runs. I find the decresed cooldown on DnD and DG is great to have, as well as the UB being great for keeping the aggro of several mobs on me.

Jaeden
06-26-2009, 08:59 AM
You have spread yourself too thin and in so doing missed out in some talents.

Parry is never a good idea to gem/strive for. You would be better having a trinket that gave you more health.

You are missing out in Necrosis, which not everyone realizes works on your Rune Strikes, unlike Blood Caked Blade.

You are sacrificing 5 Expertise, not Expertise rating, and 10% damage to get your 19% chance to take 45% less damage from a nuke.

I'd take the deflection and crit points out and pick up Necrosis and consider IUP, with the moving we do, the increase helps.

HootyElune
06-26-2009, 09:37 AM
Does anyone have an idea of what a good avoidance rating should be.

Currenltly I have ~28% dodge ~18% parry unbuffed & 3% improved miss unbuffed add ~2% to parry & dodge for horn of winter.

is this standard, low, or normal? Also anyone know of an avoidance calculator for a DK?

chop360
08-02-2009, 02:48 AM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0xZ0xxZdgGIhckgIV0zozt:mMpMmV
BEST Unholy Tank Spec (swap talents from Necrosis into Virulence depending on your gear).;)

TychoTg
08-02-2009, 11:00 AM
Hi there, just figured out this spec for myself:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZhxZfghI00zgI0ocsut)

Imp. IT seems nice to have to me, and auto-attack buffs like BCB don't seem a real bonus to me as UH tanks hardly auto-attack.
Have not tried my spec yet though, so any comments are more then welcome.

Thanks in advance.

//Berethus

Kuroi
03-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Many of the builds above are not competitive since the new sweeping changes that came about with patch 3.3. And some of them that do not include basic things like 5/5/5 across the board make me cringe... At what point do Unholy Tanks suddenly pass up blatantly obvious survivability. I can see passing up lower threat talents for more survivability or plug a vulnerability in your raid... but that is just sad.

At the time of writing this its 3.3.2 (March 2010) I encourage anyone reading... Please stay current with "new" threat analysis found here:

http://pwnwear.com/2009/11/02/unholy-tank-in-3-3/

The builds discussed in the link above are still relevant. Please read the threat analysis. I would like to highlight:

No Reaping being the primary winner because as it stands now Unholy tanks do not get enough +dps stats to use 1 Scourge Strike...as apposed to 2x Blood Strikes. Since 2x Blood strikes is better then 1 Scourge taking Reaping is a waste. Especially if you take desolation. (Buff activated after using bloodstrike.)

No Reaping Build: (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eS0gP2XcCKCPgW,YpReO-,11159)

Necrosis is awesome for ST threat... Lets stop spreading misinformation. Necrosis is fantastic. Please check out his alternative builds for AMS/AMZ where he takes 4 points out of lower threat talents to achieve this without hindering threat too noticeably.

Side note:

Those same 4 points can also be used to get a ghoul (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eS0gP2XsQDJMhC,YRpOqe,11599)... if your into that type of thing. My friend and I tried it out, he had fun blowing his ghoul up with CE for extra AOE threat. I had fun eating it whenever i needed. We both use the same shift modifier for an extra interrupt (1 minute cooldown blows though since they nerfed it) I have a macro keyed into RS which makes him great at kicking over enemy totems and freeing players . It's Probably more work then its worth. I find being lazy with macros helps. Your mileage may vary but id like to point out its basically same foundations as No Reaping with AMZ (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eS0gP2XcCI3AmV,Yp3eO-,10676) to do this.

Useful Macros:

(Mouseover) Pet Attack
/petattack [target = mouseover]
/focus
/targetlasttarget
/cast Rune Strike

Allows you to order your pet around and keeps track of what hes on via focus. This is the best totem killing macro I could come up with. Its a shame we can't target them by name anymore.

Attack & Leap Back

/mountspecial
[/cast whatever you start your rotation with, or nothing at all if you want to send him in alone]
/cast [@target, exists, harm] Leap
/petattack
/stopmacro [@target, harm]
/cast [@target, exists, noharm] Leap
/stopmacro [@target, noharm]
/cast [@player] Leap
/petfollow

The mount special in the beginning makes this fun to use while flying. Its ignored unless your mounted. You can set this to any of your attacks like ITouch. It easily lets your ghoul attack the target if they can do so. It also lets you target a healer and have your ghoul leap to her so he can avoid being melted by AOE. I like this one the best because you can really just set your ghoul on something and forget about him. You can copy the bottom half of the macro and assign it to a healer so when you use AMS he will auto leap to the healer. Just thought i'd mention it because its another way to use him w/o much thought.

Interupt: