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Rorax
11-19-2008, 03:18 PM
Please forgive me if I've missed something, but for all the reading I've done today, I cannot find the answers to:

Level 80 warrior hit cap?
Level 80 warrior expertise cap?
Level 80 warrior defense cap?

Thanks!

Regards,

Ror

Kazeyonoma
11-19-2008, 03:32 PM
9% hit at 80 to hit level 83 mobs,
6.5% dodge reduction on expertise
~12.5% parry reduction on expertise
5.6% crit reduction on defense

Nothing has changed, just the amount of rating you need. I know for sure the defense minimum is 540 defense skill which requires something like 670 defense rating.

Halgreg
11-19-2008, 05:17 PM
I think the numbers below represent 1% at level 80
Expertise(-1% Dodge/Parry) 32.78998947
Hit 32.78998947

So, in addition to what Kazeyonoma stated, here are the approximate caps.

Defense Cap: 540 Defense Skill
Hit Cap: 295.1 Hit Rating
Expertise Dodge Reduction Cap: 213.1 Expertise Rating
Expertise Parry Reduction Cap: ~409.9 Expertise Rating

Kazeyonoma
11-19-2008, 05:18 PM
Thanks Halgreg.

Rorax
11-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Thanks guys. :)

Looks like I've got a lot of work to do!

:P

Ror

Finelle
11-24-2008, 06:35 PM
Defense should generally be looked at as a floor, not a cap. With Block providing significant mitigation, the value of Defense has increased from TBC to Wrath.

alijemis
01-27-2009, 09:11 PM
hi
"~12.5% parry reduction on expertise", how do i find that .
also when i point my curser on expertise it says reduce chance to be dodge or parried by 7.25% is that what we after or more..and how come dodge and parry both 7.25% y not two different figures..this is confusing :( plz reply for this post appreciate ur love

Firstprime
01-27-2009, 11:48 PM
I believe the current hit cap is 8%, expertise doesn't show the parry and dodge reduction as 2 separate values since expertise increases them both at equal rates. As for the current defense cap.....there isn't one. 540 defense skill is required for crit immunity vs raid bosses and 535 defense skill for heroic bosses.

Taelas
01-27-2009, 11:55 PM
There's some discussion whether the cap has changed from 9% to 8%.

9% equals ~296 hit rating, 8% equals ~263 hit rating.

We look at 540 Defense as a soft cap, not as a floor. A floor implies you cannot do anything until you've reached it, which isn't true. You can tank raids with less than 540 Defense -- you simply take a great risk doing so that once in a while, you'll die.
The reason why it's a soft cap is because the benefit diminishes drastically once we're past 540. Since that's the point where we reach crit immunity... it's a soft cap.

Defense is still valuable post-540 Defense, but not nearly as much as it is until we hit that crucial point.

~689 Defense rating grants the 140 Defense above your natural maximum (level x 5) you need to be crit immune.

Clav
01-28-2009, 01:57 AM
hi
"~12.5% parry reduction on expertise", how do i find that .
also when i point my curser on expertise it says reduce chance to be dodge or parried by 7.25% is that what we after or more..and how come dodge and parry both 7.25% y not two different figures..this is confusing :( plz reply for this post appreciate ur love

Expertise affects parry and dodge at the same time it's just the chances a boss has to dodge and parry are different. Most boss mobs have a dodge chance of 6.5%. If you get your 26 expertise skill you will have reduced the mobs chance to dodge your attack to 0% but he will still have a chance to parry of ~6-9% depending on what boss it is, some parry more and some parry less (i think :S).

For melee dps 26 expertise is considered the cap since that will remove dodges completely and mobs can't parry when you are behind them. Anything above 26 is a waste and you should try and swap gear/gems/enchants for more ap/crit at that point. If you have talents that reduce dodge chance then you should factor that into the expertise cap.

For tanks it is arguable whether stacking expertise to the parry cap is beneficial or not. Personally I aim for hit cap and soft expertise cap and anything after that is a bonus. I don't try and actively stack a load of expertise to be totally capped.

Synapse
01-28-2009, 03:23 AM
We look at 540 Defense as a soft cap, not as a floor. A floor implies you cannot do anything until you've reached it, which isn't true. You can tank raids with less than 540 Defense -- you simply take a great risk doing so that once in a while, you'll die.
This is the kind of thing I refrain from spreading.

Yes it's correct, accurate. Doesn't make it a good idea. As we all know, it's not hard to reach said minimum, which pretty much excludes any possible "the risk is so small I might give it a shot since an upgrade is not gonna come anytime early anyway" argument.
I like to use the giraffe metaphor for it: You can tank crittable. You might as well have sex with a giraffe. The true question is: Why would you?

Taelas
01-28-2009, 03:34 AM
This is the kind of thing I refrain from spreading.

Yes it's correct, accurate. Doesn't make it a good idea. As we all know, it's not hard to reach said minimum, which pretty much excludes any possible "the risk is so small I might give it a shot since an upgrade is not gonna come anytime early anyway" argument.
I like to use the giraffe metaphor for it: You can tank crittable. You might as well have sex with a giraffe. The true question is: Why would you?

Such an apt metaphor. :P

I never said it was a good idea. It isn't automatically a bad idea, however. It's a risk, that's it.

As for "spreading" that "kind of thing", what I am promoting is information. Informed decisions are better than blindly following advice -- even good advice.

Synapse
01-28-2009, 03:37 AM
Point taken. When I do mention the possibility of tanking crittable I like to specify that there's hardly a real reason to do so other than laziness.
Bad memories with the official boards...

Taelas
01-28-2009, 03:40 AM
There are reasons -- for instance, you could have a sudden tank shortage and a need to get a new tank in a hurry for your raid. A crittable tank is better than no tank.

alijemis
01-28-2009, 08:11 PM
hi ty for the answer ..actually i have another question im tanking warrior wondering how much block value i shud have for raiding encounters and also how do i find how much block value i have? is it worth to stacking block rating.seen so many druids , dks and pally tanks do way beter dps than warriors in tanking spec.is there a way that warriors can increase their dps..?other than going fury or arms ..





Expertise affects parry and dodge at the same time it's just the chances a boss has to dodge and parry are different. Most boss mobs have a dodge chance of 6.5%. If you get your 26 expertise skill you will have reduced the mobs chance to dodge your attack to 0% but he will still have a chance to parry of ~6-9% depending on what boss it is, some parry more and some parry less (i think :S).

For melee dps 26 expertise is considered the cap since that will remove dodges completely and mobs can't parry when you are behind them. Anything above 26 is a waste and you should try and swap gear/gems/enchants for more ap/crit at that point. If you have talents that reduce dodge chance then you should factor that into the expertise cap.

For tanks it is arguable whether stacking expertise to the parry cap is beneficial or not. Personally I aim for hit cap and soft expertise cap and anything after that is a bonus. I don't try and actively stack a load of expertise to be totally capped.

Unstoppabull
10-07-2009, 07:42 PM
I'm not sure if this is been addressed but I was curious as I've seen it more and more lately.
When I hear Defense Cap, I think that when I hit 540, theres no sense in having more unless I can't help the stat without dropping below it.
As of late I've seen a large number of people that stack defense between 545 and 555.
According to the tooltip on WoWArmory, this does add chance to dodge, block, and parry in addition to further preventing being critically struck.
Is there really a reason to stack beyond 540 as opposed to stacking more avoidance stats?

Daxon
10-23-2009, 08:58 AM
Note: Gemming will be different for different classes.
Pre-raids, gem for defense to reach the cap until you have enough to start gemming for the future. Hopefully, if you're planning to tank raids, you should have roughly enough defense from gear and enchants alone so that you won't have to gem for much defense. (As of now, you can run heroics to get emblems of conquest to pick up relevant ilvl228 gear) Assuming you have the 540 def, you may want to slot blue for stam, recommended: "solid majestic zircon", yellow for hit+stam, recommended: "vivid eye of zul", and red for expertise+stam, recommended:"Guardian's dreadstone". This is based on the fact that you'll eventually want to reach the hit and expertise caps (you most likely won't at this level), you don't want to lose too much stam bonus by gemming straight yellows of reds, but you also want to get the socket bonuses instead of just gemming straight +30 stams around because you'll neglect other important free stats.
Of course, for pali's, expertise is considerably less worth it, so I would look into another choice, such as dodge+stam for red slots.

These are my opinions, not the gospel. :p

Satrina
10-23-2009, 09:02 AM
Please forgive me if I've missed something, but for all the reading I've done today, I cannot find the answers to:

http://www.tankspot.com/photoplog/images/483/1_LookHarder.jpg

Edit: Bad Kazey!

Ion
10-23-2009, 09:05 AM
Arise, 9 month old thread, and carry out your master's will!