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Krashtork
11-05-2008, 10:19 AM
Hi all, my guild is looking to overhaul our recruitment system a bit and I'm helping out on the project. After poking around a bit I found that this topic hasn't been explored very much.

So without further ado, my questions for you guys are:

1) What questions do you ask your applicants when they apply? What information do you get from them? (The more detailed you can be the better)

2) How do you go about evaluating them in game?

3) When do they get invited?

4) How long do you normally trial an applicant?

5) On what grounds do you invite or reject an applicant?

6) Since between levels 71-80 in WoTLK there wont be any raiding going on, how will you handle applications and evaluations?

Fubar
11-06-2008, 11:21 AM
There is a thread about questioning a tank somewhere in TS, and Satrina chimed in about the tests that he has given in the past.

I would think that there would be a new set of questions as Wrath approaches, but in using the test, my guild picked up 5 tanks in a year that were all very well played and understood toons. Too bad we couldn't evaluate how well they would fit into our culture.

Of course, on the application, I attribute the questions to Satrina, as I do now:

Protection Paladins

1) Do you know what effective health is? If yes, give a short summary. (no change)
2a) What sort of cycle would you use to generate threat, assuming you need to keep Holy Shield up and the target is humanoid?
2b) What sort of cycle would you use to generate threat, assuming you need to keep Holy Shield up and the target is undead?
3) What consumables do you bring to a raid, and why?
4) You need to tank something that can spell reflect - what do you do?
5) How can you become immune to crushing blows?
6) The sheep are wandering beside you while tanking trash - what do you do?
7) How much +spell damage do you feel is a good amount?
8) How would you compare dodge, parry, and block as stats to stack when building your 102.4%?



Protection Warriors

1) Do you know what effective health is? If yes, give a short summary.
2) What sort of cycle would you use to generate threat, assuming you need to use Shield Block?
3) 490 defense makes you immune to crushing blows?
4) 25% block chance is required?
5) How can you become immune to crushing blows?
6) Is it useful to build Defense past 490?
7) Devastate and Sunder Armor: Compare and contrast
8) Is it a good idea to stack a lot of avoidance in your gear? Why or why not?
9) What consumables do you bring to a raid, and why?



We've considered a 5 man run with a toon, but that was too hard to organize. Instead, we've asked questionable players (those without guildie reference) for their latest WWS results.

Krashtork
11-06-2008, 02:02 PM
I appreciate the input. Although I think I wasn't clear that I am asking about applicants in a general sense, not just for tanks.

Satrina
11-06-2008, 02:38 PM
This is the thread we had a while ago: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f92/33258-recruiting-tanks-how-picky-you.html. That's geared towards tanks for sure. In general, though, all of our applicants go through the same general process.

1) Someone of the same class will throw out 4-6 questions for every applicant as a first pass screening. The information tends to be basic class operation and understanding. I've seen our healers ask "how would you heal the MT on BossXXX", "how would you heal the offtank on BossYYY", "how would you heal the raid on BossZZZ". In some ways, I am less specific than others that put questions out for applicants (and I got semi flamed here for the questions I gave as examples!)

2) Simple: We throw them in the mix - giving them assignments that we expect they should be able to handle based on gear - and see if they sink or swim. We are not a happy family friendly guild. We expect people to help themselves by either reading the strats or actually asking questions more than two minutes before the fight.

3) Assuming an applicant has gear that is in the right ballpark, doesn't retard out on questions and don't have a bad reputation, we tag them and begin their recruit period. Their application post also gets moved from the public recruiting forum to a private members only evaluation forum where people comment on the applicant over the course of the recruiting period. We also have an "I'm new here!" forum that is officers and recruits only, so they can ask questions in a semi-private area.

4) The recruit period is almost always three weeks. We've occasionally extended that to four weeks for special circumstances. With very few exceptions, everyone gets their three weeks.

5) Members give feedback on the recruit in the private forum over the course of the recruit period. Taking member feedback into account, we officers discuss amongst ourselves, but the GM has the final say.

How to get rejected:
- You disappear (you will get booted pretty fast, you won't get three weeks)
- You suck (you'll probably still get your three weeks though, because we might see potential. We've had a few hopeless cases that didn't get three weeks)
- You're a raging douchebag (you have to be pretty bad to get booted before three weeks for this; as I said, we are not a happy family guild)

How to get in:
- Show up, do your homework ahead of time, don't suck, don't be a dick, show that you want to be in our guild.

6) We recruited before we stopped raiding. We might pick up one or two on the way and evaluate in the 10 mans, but that's unlikely.

Calintara
11-06-2008, 02:51 PM
Hi all, my guild is looking to overhaul our recruitment system a bit and I'm helping out on the project. After poking around a bit I found that this topic hasn't been explored very much.

So without further ado, my questions for you guys are:

1) What questions do you ask your applicants when they apply? What information do you get from them? (The more detailed you can be the better)

2) How do you go about evaluating them in game?

3) When do they get invited?

4) How long do you normally trial an applicant?

5) On what grounds do you invite or reject an applicant?

6) Since between levels 71-80 in WoTLK there wont be any raiding going on, how will you handle applications and evaluations?



General information based off my guild’s focus/needs: I am the Co-GM of Fail with my wife. Our guild is designed around the concept of casual raiding, WoW community, and personal accountability. When it comes to recruiting we did very little in general, aside from an initial build up. They call me the “7 of 9” because I basically assimilated my friends list into my guild over time.

Member focus is more on the personality of the person behind the keys then it is on the actual player in the game. This does provide some interesting challenges to the raiding arena when the person is nice and the player is not-so-much. However, we intentionally put ourselves in that position to attract members that would typically be rejected by other guilds based off their external characteristics (armor, weps, enchants, etc). Although much information can be gathered by the physical characteristics of a WoW character it is still merely a snapshot. We have not made it nearly as far, nor are as geared, as many others but through time and training we just cleared our third boss through BT last night. Pre-patch we were mid TK. I apologize for the Fail history lesson but I wanted to give a baseline of who we are and what for my answers to your questions. I felt it would provide insight into our application questions and ideas.

1. What questions do you ask your applicants when they apply? What information do you get from them? (The more detailed you can be the better)

a. On our applications we attempt to identify their root cause for joining (Raid, social, bg). -->This tells us where they will fit in the most.

b. We try to identify if they have raid experience, raid leadership, use of game mods, and voice communication, current spec, etc. -->This tells me what level of training they may require and/or what experience they bring to the table.

c. Prior Guild status to see how often they move around guilds, and the terms/reasons why they left those guilds. (verifiable).

d. We attempt to find the source that brought them to our door (demographic question really but can lead to a “guilt-by-association” factor).

e. We also try to find out their play schedule as best as they can describe to see where and/how we can fit them into our community.

2. How do you go about evaluating them in game?

a. We deal more with a trust evaluation with some security checks in place. Based on how an applicant completes their application I can get a raw feel for the person. I speak with the person in game to get a slightly better idea but at the end of the dog-and-pony show it is still all about how good the person sells themselves. A main point that they are given is zero-tolerance for drama and mutual respect for all guild members.

3. When do they get invited?


a. If the person is good with this baseline I will invite them into our lowest rank.

4. How long do you normally trial an applicant?

a. The player’s trial period is mostly up to them. I stopped giving definitive time frames aside from a 2 week minimum. Some players may be promoted to member at 2 weeks others may take substantially longer. It is based on their play style, guild chatter, guild mentality, and all-around attitude in general.


5. On what grounds do you invite or reject an applicant?

a. We invite based off those people we think have our same guild attitudes and goals at heart. We try to ensure that those players are ones that we would not be embarrassed to see running around a zone bearing our guild tag. Personal accountability and how you represent your guild goes a long way with me.


6. Since between levels 71-80 in WoTLK there won’t be any raiding going on, how will you handle applications and evaluations?

a. As of this Friday, we are completely closing all guild applications until players get to 80 and the membership base settles into who they will be playing. We decided it would be best to focus internally and open the doors up after the dust clears. For all I know I may lose 10 healers/tanks to dps classes and gain 4 healers/tanks from dps classes. We have a rough idea of who will be who based off some forum questions that we laid out. However, that of course may change on a whim. I don’t pay for my guild members accounts so im not going to tell them what class to play.

Sorry for the length. Hope an alternate perspective assists you.

Krashtork
11-06-2008, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys. It's given me a good deal to think about. More commentary very welcome.

salihe
11-11-2008, 03:16 PM
1) What questions do you ask your applicants when they apply? What information do you get from them? (The more detailed you can be the better)

Well, I'm at a point where I can afford to be very discriminating. The macro I use is serious and very blunt. Off the top of my head, it goes something like, "Shadow Raiders is recruiting! min-lvl 70, must be prepared to hit 80 ASAP and begin raiding several nites a week, must educate themselves, be active, mature, and motivated. Have website, 5 tabs, etc" etc. So, since I start out being very specific, I tend to get replies from people who are attracted to that mentallity. The first question I ask them, usually, is something to the effect of "What did you think of what I put in the macro?" I ask about their raiding experience, their availability, and their own personal level of motivation. I tell them flat-out that I'm dead-tired of harassing people to do things they should automatically do on their own, and that if they're willing to do those things, then we'll be fine, but if the moment comes and I have to start carrying them, then we'll have problems. I generally grill them pretty hard, and, as I mentioned in another post, it's kind of funny that that grilling only seems to make a lot of them want to join even more. Good people, I've found, like being put through the wringer because it shows them I don't dick around and accept anyone who sends me a tell.

2) How do you go about evaluating them in game?
I don't really feel an overwhelming need to evaluate the types of people I described above in a raid environment. Their attitude and enthusiasm, I've found, is indicative of their playstyle, and in almost all cases, I've been very pleased with the results.

3) When do they get invited?
If they pass my interogation, they get invited immediately...or whenever they're ready.

4) How long do you normally trial an applicant?
We have a two week probation period.

5) On what grounds do you invite or reject an applicant?
From a logistical standpoint, we don't accept anyone under 16. Beyond that, I don't have a list of rules set in stone I use to determine if someone is worthy or not. I'm generally pretty good at reading people and determining what type of person they are by what they say. If their attitude and statements appeal to me and what I'm looking for, that's usually enough.

6) Since between levels 71-80 in WoTLK there wont be any raiding going on, how will you handle applications and evaluations?
The same way as described above, with the exception that I likely won't be using my recruitment macro anymore. We're at the point now where people are coming to us, through word-of-mouth.


One piece of advice I will give you is that, unless your officers are as bound and determined to be extremely discriminating (if that is your goal, that is), I would leave recruitment duties in your own hands. My guild started on another, extremely low pop server, and after much frustration, a handful of us transferred to a much better one. A couple officers, however, were too aggresive and not nearly discriminating enough when it came to recruiting, thinking that large numbers = success. That theory was disproved, however, when we had almost 80 members and were unable to do a 25-man raid without pugging half the group. That kind of woke me up to the fact that a LOT more discrimination was needed, and as such, I took primary recruiting duties on myself. It's gone quite well since then, I'll admit.

With that, I wish you luck.

blahism
11-11-2008, 03:22 PM
I believe we sit at 140 lvl 70s in our guild and we still pug for some people for 25 mans, mostly because we group every night of the week. As a casual raiding guild, its somewhat first come first served and it works fairly well since people for the most part are mature about it.

The positive side of such a guild is that we group kara daily, group za daily, group heroics many times a day and we built relationships with other guilds to fill spots as needed.

Not interested in being the top guild, nor are we interested in it turning into 2nd jobs for people.