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Sennex
11-05-2008, 07:16 AM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml;jsessionid=E83659F409F97B0EE299A0C9A1C0D 678.app06_02?r=durotan&n=Senno)

That is my armory listing and the gear is actually up to date for once. I am new to raiding, but have been silently trolling these forums and boards for a while now.

I tend to AE tank allot as, not sure if this is an efficient use of my talents and gear though. I know my gems could be better but I am not sure which ones to jump off on or if I should even wait for LK to come out (Currently I am saving for my Epic Flying mount, so I did skimp on gems).

Thanks ahead of time for the advice

Kainic
11-05-2008, 07:22 AM
First of all, go for 490 defense. This way you'll be crit inmune against lvl 73 mobs. This is mandatory for raiding.

Then, I would put 5 points in Deflection over Cruelty. I would fill Puncture although rage is not a major problem now. And I would go for Anticipation instead of Incite if you're new to tanking.

Sennex
11-05-2008, 07:39 AM
Okay, I will look into that, I basically took the 5-man/ Kara raid build that Cider posted here:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f64/40487-3-0-preparedness-your-tuesday-guide.html

Its been working well so far, but, I hate to say this, I have an issue with Keeping aggro off the Fury specced warriors in my guild. Granted most of them have been raiding for 3+ years now, and I have been told not to worry about it as their gear is a big factor in it all, but that just doesn't seem to me like a good answer. I would think that I could do a better job of keeping a mobs attention.

tcdgais
11-05-2008, 11:51 AM
your spec looks good. if you were experiencing some difficulties surviving heavy incoming damage, than more avoidance could be picked up by swapping points, but dont do that if its not needed.

490 defense (or uncrittability however its obtained...combo resil/def) is very important. especially when you are new to raid tanking and you arent in content you out-gear. some of us can get away with it in kara, but it still has the potential to get ugly.

as for holding threat off of DPSers, you might need to understand the situation more clearly yourself before anyone can offer specific advice. threat post 3.0 hasnt been the issue it always was, but that doesnt mean its not there. DPSers can still get premature with their attacks, especially on mobs you havent applied substantial threat to, or even out aggro some low TPS rotations. figure out exactly what is happening and counter with your abilities.

Tyriall
11-05-2008, 12:02 PM
Get to revered with Aldor and get the Vindicator's Hauberk. You're almost there, it shouldn't be too hard.

Also, try to nab the Devilshark Cape or buy Slikk's Cloak of Placation for 35 badges. i would recommend Steelweave if you're still not crit immune by then (you need to mouse over defense and resilience and make sure your chance to be crit is reduced by 5.6%).

When you're pumping out threat/dps, remember to never ignore the Sword and Board procs. Shield Slam every time it's up. After that give priority to Revenge, and finally Devastate. For AOE, lay down a Thunderclap, then a Shockwave. After the stun has worn off, throw up that Shield Block and keep using TC every time it's up. Tabbing wouldn't hurt either.

You'll get more strength, BV, stam and armor as your gear improves. The only way to get better is to practice. Make sure you know the fights you're going into so that a gimmick or hitch doesn't get you and wipe the raid.

Good luck!

Sennex
11-05-2008, 01:14 PM
as for holding threat off of DPSers, you might need to understand the situation more clearly yourself before anyone can offer specific advice. threat post 3.0 hasnt been the issue it always was, but that doesnt mean its not there. DPSers can still get premature with their attacks, especially on mobs you havent applied substantial threat to, or even out aggro some low TPS rotations. figure out exactly what is happening and counter with your abilities.

Well here is one scenario, Gruul's Lair the other day, I was assigned to tank the priest/ healer Ogre and pull them back into the tunnel, and away from everyone else. I get maybe 2 swings in and a Shaman, and 2 Fury Specced warriors come over and immediately open up, and I lose the aggro and it caused us to wipe, this happened 3 more times until the MT for the guild basically snapped off in teh raid about waiting for me.

I feel like I could have been doing more, I was hitting Styling as I normally do, which is to open with Devastate, Rend, and then begin a rotation of revenge, Heroic Strike, Thunderclap/ Shockwave, and Shield Slam (all as Rage and procs allow.

In Kara, I don't often have problems, and I have Main Tanked it twice, now, but there again depending on the warriors/ Shaman present I can't keep aggro for very long.

Other places I have tnaked without an issue are Magisters Terrace, All of Hellfire's ID's, All Zangarmarsh, All of Terrokkar's, and have gone back to do the Old World content for the achievements.

The Main Pallie for the guild keeps telling me not to sweat it, the Fury guys need to learn to back off more, but I just feel I should be able to do more.

I guess at present my question would be, can a Prot spec always hold aggro off a Fury spec or does it just come down to luck and when each side starts swinging?

Shagh
11-05-2008, 05:03 PM
All current thought seems to open with Shield Slam,TC, Shockwace, Demo Shout, TC. Then Shiled Slam > Revenge > Dev.

That I believe should improve your threat a fair amount.

Never used Rend tanking myself.

Fayre
11-06-2008, 12:32 AM
Couple of things to suggest:

1. Use Vigilance on one of those Fury warriors who is causing you trouble.

2. Change up your tanking moves - particularly at the start of a pull. For single-target tanking, trying using Shield Slam as an opener and every time its up, followed by Revenge, followed by Devastate (i.e. prioritise SS, then Rev, then Dev). Use Heroic Strike only when you're over 50 rage and stop using it when you're not. Other valid moves are Shockwave or Conc. Blow instead of a Devastate, and obviously Demo Shout & T/clap as debuffs. They should replace Devastate in your rotation.

Sennex
11-06-2008, 07:23 AM
Awesome!

I appreciate all the help. I have a raid tonight, just Kara, so I can try this stuff out there.

I also managed to pick up a new Shield last night off of Nightbane, <item>http://thottbot.com/i28606</item>

I was told to grab Stamina on it, but my wife can enchant with either of the High end Blocks enchants, so I am sorta up in the air on that. Suggestions please?

Tyriall
11-06-2008, 10:19 AM
I was told to grab Stamina on it, but my wife can enchant with either of the High end Blocks enchants, so I am sorta up in the air on that. Suggestions please?

If you're tanking, I would suggest stam.

Did you say you're using Rend in a threat rotation? I'm not sure that's very effective... I would suggest sticking to SS > Rev > Dev (for the sunder debuff and a chance on a S&B proc). I don't really use TC on a single target unless I am just taking too much damage. As someone already suggested, putting Vigilance on your highest aggro "offender" will take 10% off his threat and add that 10% to yours, which is very helpful. Also, if you can, get Blessing of Sanctuary from a prot pallie, your rage generation will go through the roof and you'll be able to heroic strike like a madman.

Good luck!

Sennex
11-06-2008, 10:35 AM
Yea, I am going to pull Rend out of the rotation tonight and see how it goes.

I had been using Vigilance on my wife's priest (Or whatever priest is Main Healer), so that I can grab her aggro, but it does make more sense to drop it on the Fury guys.

Thanks folks I will tweak all this stuff and post back again tomorrow.

tcdgais
11-06-2008, 12:25 PM
some good advice pouring in here. it seems your front in threat was lacking by trying to get abilities like rend up. even TC is nothing i shoot to apply early when single mob tanking like that maulgar pull in gruuls. i will get that later once some significant threat has been applied through a healthy SS opener followed by glyphed rev/HS and then devastates until i can start the whole heart-warming process over again.

Sennex
11-06-2008, 12:58 PM
yea from really thinking over in my head how I go about handling single mobs, I tend to:
Charge
Rend
Dev
SS
TC

While interspersing Revenge, and Heroic strike when available.

I will be changing my layout as soon as I get home to adjust for this now, and Rend goes to my "Utility bar" (Place were styles that might be useful depending on the fight sit)

Sennex
11-10-2008, 10:02 AM
I changed up my style set like you all recommended and its insane how much better I do now. Thank you for the help.

I got some sweet pieces over the weekend. Please take a look and let me know your thoughts.

clavarnway
11-11-2008, 02:56 PM
Good to hear. Remember that your #1 ability for threat is Shield Slam, followed by Revenge. Devastate is good to fill in the holes, as is Concussion Blow and Shockwave.

Rend kinda sucks. Hehe.

At the very beginning of a pull it's more important to get high threat on a mob fast, so try using Shield Block, then hitting the mob with Shield Slam. You should get insane aggro at the very beginning so those Fury Warriors can't mess with you too much.

And yeah, Vigilance on the Fury Warriors is much better than on a healer. Only put it on a healer if there are constant threat wipes, such that a HoT from her might pull aggro from a mob that doesn't have aggro on you yet.

Sennex
11-12-2008, 11:15 AM
Yea, my Guild took down Gruul and Magtheridon on Monday night, and while I wasn't the Main Tank, I was the Off Tank and Aggro was SO much easier to manage once I dropped Rend completely.

Now I only use it when I am far enough ahead on Threat that I can afford it as an alternative to Dev. I figure using it as a substitute for more DPS isn't a bad idea.