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Sangi
10-24-2008, 07:24 AM
Our guild is going through our preparations for Wrath. One of the things that we did in the past was have a loot list that defined what classes were able to roll on what items. It wasn't perfect but it gave the raid an expectation of what items were available to them when. It also provided an final neutral arbitrator rather than having endless discussions in officer about what classes and specs would benefit more from what pieces of loot.

With the changes to the itemization I think that it would be possible to define a list for class and spec based off of the itemization of the item. This is the list that I have defined. I don't know all classes. I would appreciate any input from other players about the correctness of the list.

As a side note this has links out to wowhead searches to item level 213, BoP, Epic gear. I did this for the counts as we were trying to determine how much competition there would be for pieces in a raid. In a sample raid composition we had twice as many cloth wearers as fell into the other categories. What is nice to see is that for the categories below there are twice as many cloth pieces as there are for any other category.


Plate Tank (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.4&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51: 42;crs=1:1:2:2:4:1;crv=0:0:0:0:0:0): has Def - Warrior Tanks, Pally Tanks, DK Tanks
Plate Melee (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.4&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51; crs=1:1:2:2:1;crv=0:0:0:0:0): No Def, No Spell Power - Warrior DPS, Ret Pallies, DK DPS
Plate Caster (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.4&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51; crs=1:1:2:2:1;crv=0:0:0:0:0): No Def, SpellPower - Ret Pallies, Holy Pallies, DK DPS
Mail Melee (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.3&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51: 42;crs=1:1:2:2:4:3;crv=0:0:0:0:0:0): No Spell Power - Hunters, Enh Shammies
Mail Caster (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.3&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51; crs=1:1:2:2:1;crv=0:0:0:0:0): Spell Power - Elemental Shammies, Restro Shammies
Leather Melee/Tank (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.2&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51; crs=1:1:2:2:3;crv=0:0:0:0:0): No Spell Power - Druid Tanks, Ferals, Rogues
Leather Caster (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.2&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12:51; crs=1:1:2:2:1;crv=0:0:0:0:0): Spell Power - Boomkins, Trees
Cloth Caster (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?items=4.1&filter=qu=4;minle=213;maxle=213;cr=131:2:93:12;crs =1:1:2:2;crv=0:0:0:0): Any cloth really - Mages, Priests, Warlocks

Meeks
10-24-2008, 07:27 AM
Out of curiosity why would ret pallies and Dks want caster plate?

mero12513
10-24-2008, 07:45 AM
I personally try to separate the healing cloth from the dps cloth. Because healers should never be getting hit, we let druids or shamans roll on cloth with only slightly less priority than priests.

Basically, any cloth with hit rating on it is a DPS cloth. Reasoning is farily obvious: heals don't miss.

Any cloth with Mp5/Spirit is healing cloth. DPS shouldn't really be going OOM any more with raid-wide replenishment and decent mana use, but healers (according to blue posts at least) should expect to see mana management come back to be a big part of their gameplay.

That's not a rock-solid rule, but I think it helps itemization for both groups and leads to less of chance for loot drama if you make those rules clear before-hand.

Sangi
10-24-2008, 07:55 AM
Meeks: That's actually part of why I am posting. I am not intimately familiar with all the gearing changes for all the classes. The itemization for these classes will be that they never want any spell power gear? The only thing that makes me think that this would not be the case is that that leaves only one class wanting spell power plate and I thought that blizzards intention was to get away from designing items for a single class.

mero: I'm a noob. I didn't even think of hit rating. And actually it ends up pretty balanced between specialty items with +hit and specialty items with mp5. I disagree with the spirit being priority for healers though. With some of the new talent changes dps classes gain passive benefits from spirit. I would go with a new breakdown of DPS Caster: Spell power and +hit, Healer: mp5. All Clothies: have neither. This isn't saying that the other classes wouldn't be able to get the piece it they would have second priority such as a leather wearer rolling on a cloth item.

mero12513
10-24-2008, 08:09 AM
mero: I disagree with the spirit being priority for healers though. With some of the new talent changes dps classes gain passive benefits from spirit.

I wasn't aware of any changes that made spirit passively good for dps casters. Thanks for bringing it up...I don't follow other classes nearly as well as I should.

Fayre
10-25-2008, 07:32 AM
Sangi, Meeks is right. The only class/spec who will want spellpower plate is the holy paladin at the moment. It IS daft and it DOES go against what Blizzard 'wanted' - but that's the situation.

Darksend
10-25-2008, 07:46 AM
I wasn't aware of any changes that made spirit passively good for dps casters. Thanks for bringing it up...I don't follow other classes nearly as well as I should.

life tap now scales solely with spirit, and gets 0 benefit from spell power

Krashtork
10-25-2008, 01:54 PM
This seems to me to be an awful pain in the arse for something that should be readily apparent.

Sangi
10-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Yeah its semi-complicated and semi-pita. With some wrangling and a few exceptions here and there this is what I worked up. Take a gander at it and tell me if anything looks inherently out of place.

Google Docs - 30 Loot Priorities (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p3uFFBN0T8l-B3llqBTJvIA)

The main exceptions that we are making are for hunter weapons. Two handers with the main stat is agility are hunter first. And I can't imagine any DK, Ret Pally, Arms warrior, Fury warrior or enhancement shaman wanting those weapons over a hunter.

Krashtork
10-28-2008, 12:15 AM
weild = wield* just saying. Under weapons tab of your google doc. Still seems like a very round about way of saying: we use a roll system. Seems to me that most of those are pretty clearly defined without publishing a book about em.

Sangi
10-28-2008, 06:57 AM
I think most of them are pretty obvious also. The book is there so that it is clearly defined to avoid any loot drama. Just because they are obvious to us doesn't mean that every one shares the same views. Honestly if we didn't discuss it before hand we would have never seen the issue with the hunter weapons. In that case I could have foreseen some issues occurring because of that.

With a defined list like this new recruits and current raiders can look at it and see how things are setup outside of the raid. If they have issues with it they can raise them then. There is nothing worse than having some one raise a question about who gets what piece of loot while it is being rolled on.

Kyoki
10-28-2008, 07:06 AM
weild = wield* just saying. Under weapons tab of your google doc. Still seems like a very round about way of saying: we use a roll system. Seems to me that most of those are pretty clearly defined without publishing a book about em.


You may think so but not everybody knows as much about their own class as some of us. Take for instance the ZA run i did on sunday, the holy priest wanted the dagger with spell hit on it for his healing set. He through a fit and left when we told him it goes to caster dps before healers.


I think this is a pretty good way to try and eliminate any loot drama.

Shadevarr
10-28-2008, 07:10 AM
If the other stats on that dagger were still an upgrade for the priest and the dps was taking it for an offkit, then I see no issues with the priest taking it. We've only had one issue with the spellpower changes and those were resolved when the arcane mage got the hood of the third eye.

Wartank
11-01-2008, 09:56 PM
Id be interested to know how Shadevarr resolved loot issues when the arcane mage got the hood of the third eye? We had an issue in ZA, where a holy priest was out rolled on the Hood of the third eye by a shadow priest. Of course the Hood of Hexing also drops from the same boss which a holy priest cant roll on. So if left unchecked we could have all DPS casters rolling on healing gear, but healer unable to roll on DPS gear with +hit.