PDA

View Full Version : Taunt and PvP



Zest
10-17-2008, 12:09 PM
Taunt
20 yd range
Instant 8 sec cooldown
Requires Defensive Stance
Taunts the target to attack you, but has no effect if the target is already attacking you. The target does 30% less damage for the duration of taunt or until the target has attacked you 5 times.


Is basically what I posted on the WoW warrior forums. Just wanted to know what people at tankspot thought. With the new spell reflect, intervene and vigilance talents added to the prot tree. It seems prot warriors can carve a niche in Battle Grounds and future mass pvp scenarios as... well as real tanks. ;)

Kazeyonoma
10-18-2008, 02:52 AM
in pvp scenarios this is gonna be huge "if" it works in pvp, taunt currently doesn't force the target to attack you either (although it works on pets) so it might not affect players, if it does though you better believe I'll be taunting rogues when they're damaging my healer.

Tobius
10-18-2008, 03:59 AM
Personally I don't see why it can't work as normal on other players as it does on mobs. The argument always used to be that Blizz didn't like people not having control of their characters as I understand it, but that never explained Blind, Distract, Traps, etc...

Pizzashark
10-19-2008, 01:45 PM
You don't need taunt for players. Your "taunt" comes from you being a massive threat. Stop thinking PvE in terms of PvP and you'll come out better.

Taunt is still effective on player pets and that's where you'll use it the most. Use to break CC's, like freeze trap, blind, scatter shot, and others.

Voltaik
10-21-2008, 02:08 PM
May I introduce you to safeguard?

Tangogulf
10-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Prior to playing WoW, I played Everquest 2 on a pvp server. At that time, I played a tank. The taunt button worked slightly different from what the OT describes. When the tank taunted a RL person in pvp, that person changed targets and faced the tank for three seconds before being able to retarget. It had a tremendous impact on the gameplay. As a tank, I often felt proud protecting my team mates in pvp in this manner. It some ways it was one of the best skills tanks had in that game. I can say, that it was quite an adjustment coming to wow pvp and not having this ability.

I agree that warriors can be a tremendous threat in pvp in WoW. It is the main reason why I switched from being a druid to a warrior in pvp. To a degree, if a Druid is in bear form, he/she can be left alone for a period of time without taking out ones team mates. But a warrior...properly geared must be dealt with.

I sit on the fence with this issue. As a warrior, I would love to have the ability back again, but I fear what it might do to game play.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Naaven
10-26-2008, 04:10 PM
... The taunt button worked slightly different from what the OT describes. When the tank taunted a RL person in pvp, that person changed targets and faced the tank for three seconds before being able to retarget. It had a tremendous impact on the gameplay. ...
I always thought this is how taunt should work. Even if there was no "face the tank" bit, but if it just changed their target selection, it seems like it wouldn't be a big game-changer, it would just introduce an extra skill and situational awareness requirement and keep us from having an (almost) useless ability in pvp.

Tangogulf
10-26-2008, 06:35 PM
I agree that it is the proper implementation of the ability Navan. Anything more is too much.
I have just recently undertaken tanking in Wow. I maybe way off here, but it seems to me that in pve one of our primary purposes is to gain and hold threat; in fact, it is class defining. We switch to pvp and that class defining ability is all but eliminated.

nobel
10-26-2008, 07:51 PM
If they added it to change the target selection that would definally be cool.. what else could be added is a debuff to the attackers target. The debuff would mitigate the dmg b/t yourself and the other player for a certain period of time... Also you could increase the timer on taunt in pvp, use it more as a oh my healer is about to get the living piss beat out of him button, so it doesn't become to op in certain situations. There are alot of cool things they could do with the taunt mechanism in pvp if you sit down and think about it.

Kahmal
10-27-2008, 01:21 AM
i think it'd be too damn annoying

huggy77
10-27-2008, 07:47 AM
If a hunters feign death can drop my target off him... my taunt should force someone to look at me....

Nuff said...

Nothing is worse the snake trap feign death "you cant touch me" hunter trik

Kazeyonoma
10-27-2008, 08:56 AM
that's what I've always thought, why is it a rogue can distract and FORCE me to look somewhere else, even if just for minor inconvenience, and a hunter can FD/Trap to get me to lose target, (i mean honestly who believes a hunter goes from 80%-0 with no damage on him), only to get stuck trying to click on him, while moving, while hitting buttons. It's retarded that taunt or mocking blow can't do that for us warriors.

Kahmal
10-27-2008, 11:16 AM
I guess it would be fair, but truthfully that kind of petty stuff makes me wanna bang my head against the wall in PvP, just that little small shit, like a scatter shot, doesn't last long but just long enough.

Warriors have enough tools to defend there teammates, if I get taunted just before I'm about to make a game changing blow I'm prolly gonna punch my moniter

Voltaik
10-29-2008, 11:07 AM
I'll defend the current implementation as superior to several suggestions above.

Prot warriors are overflowing with defensive tools which are interesting to be the subject of. Just to take an example, if I'm a ret pally and my target gets safeguarded, I get a choice to try to push through it or switch targets. If I get disarmed, I can choose to throw heals, or stun my opponent, or just plain run away to prevent the enemy from gaining an advantage. If I get stunned I can throw Hand of Freedom in response, or maybe wait it out and save that Hand for another situation.

Implementations of taunt, and defensive abilities in general, which take control away from players to react in turn are inferior designs to those which create interesting interactions. The comparison to Feign Death needs to take into account that the point of Feign Death's design is not to force you to re-target after it drops, but to give the hunter an opportunity to trick you into thinking he's dead. The dropping of your target is secondary in the design, to enable the Feign Death to have a chance at succeeding. Taunting a player FOR the control of who he is targeting is different, and not justifiable on the basis of Feign Death being in the game.

Genova
10-30-2008, 01:07 PM
What about Death Knights, are their taunts that pull the enemy towards them going to work in PvP? Seems a little OP if you ask me. Sure it might not make that target attack you, but it pulls them away from what they are attacking and brings them into melee range. Say your about to Ferocious Bite or Execute this priest that is keeping the raid alive at a node... and woof, Mr. Deathknight pulls you to him and saves the priest then starts wailing on you while that priest heals him.

Thats gonna suck.

zx00
11-04-2008, 07:14 PM
5 times might be abit too much, like 3 sec would be plenty, with a 8 sec cooldown and off gcd it can really be game breaking if used right by a good warrior. Maybe 10-20% dmg reduction sounds more reasonable.

Machus
11-04-2008, 08:34 PM
First, I don't see the need for the 30% damage reduction, so I'll ignore that part of the suggestion.

In my view, taunt should have worked in PvP before 3.0, by forcing the enemy to target the warrior for 3 sec. It should have had no effect on someone who had no target, or a friendly target (such as a healer). It would fit in the game and, yes, it would be very annoying, just like other class abilities that make a player lose control of their character. Some form of diminishing returns or longer cooldown would be needed in PvE, to prevent people spamming taunt and just ruining the gameplay. Before 3.0 taunt would be one of the relatively few things that tanks could bring to PvP (even the fact that it works on pets was a big deal).

Since 3.0, tanks have a lot of value in PvP as fighters, so taunt is no longer needed as a compensation for being not so useful. It might be nice to have taunt in PvP after 3.0, but it's no longer seriously missed. Also, I think Blizzard is moving away from having so much CC in PvP and back towards straight fighting, to make the game more enjoyable, so adding taunt now would be perhaps a bit of a backward step.

huggy77
11-11-2008, 08:06 AM
i disagree about the comparison to feign death... The point of taunt is to get the attention of your target, when he is targetting something else. So make it work. Saying that feign death is different because it is tricking the opposing person into thinking they are dead is fine. My warrior will then trick the opposing player into being angry at me, the targeting can only be a secondary mechanic of the ability.

There is nothing worse than not being able to target a hunter after his trap/feign horse crap...

Malignus
11-24-2008, 09:31 AM
I really like how Warhammer's taunt mechanic worked. You gain a 30% boost to damage to the target for X seconds, or until they attack you 3 times.

demoniclizard
11-24-2008, 12:04 PM
This issue has been brought up time and time again all the way since before there we even battlegrounds in the game. Every time blizzard has stated it does not want to add more stuff that causes players to lose control. Yes there are fears in in the game, and other crowd control methods but there are a lot of counters to these and not all of them give a straight up loss of control.

Prot warriors already have an arsenal of tools to control battles, I really don't think they need any more right now. Arms/fury pvp has more obvious issues to worry about right now...

cdweller0
11-24-2008, 05:34 PM
If you're going to change taunt's function in PvP, I think you need to keep in mind a measure of balancing opportunity cost for the attacker and target. Taunt costs us nothing, not even a GCD, and it has a very short cooldown. It should have a like impact upon the person being attacked.

Like most warriors I imagine, I would like to see it have some use besides pets in PvP. The thing to keep in mind is that we have to play nice with prot warriors who have the Vigilance talent. You would have to change taunt only up to the point where continuous taunts wouldn't be incredibly overpowered.

We have a lot of tools, yes. But especially prot in PvP (sorry, I don't play another spec so I won't speak to it), if no one's hitting you, you're much less of a threat in a battleground. I would propose Taunt to debuff the target's damage dealt and healing done by 10% unless the target attacks the taunter twice (or maybe does 200 dmg or something small to the taunter) or until the debuff wear off.

The reason I put it so low is because there is also the situation where you have two or more warriors attacking. With Vigilance on each other, you could do a taunt rotation on the target indefinitely. The end result would be a permanent debuff on the target or a very frustrated target unable to focus one target... all because of a zero cost ability.

The ramifications of any change to Taunt make any such proposal very, very tricky.