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Sporr
08-29-2008, 07:13 AM
The guild was giving Al'ar our second try last night, and during the second phase, we had a run where I had 2 of my taunts resisted in row.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alleria&n=Sporranor)

Taunts are affected by +hit, correct? Is +70 hit in addition to 20 from food not enough? I've always read that +hit is nice, but not to gem for it. I'm thinking my next purchase will now be the 60 badge gloves. Any other thoughts?

suesse_llane
08-29-2008, 07:17 AM
For taunt, you max out at 16% +hit but you will still have 1% chance to miss.

It's not really practical to do this since your melee attacks will max out at 9% +hit.

I wouldn't suggest regemming your main raid set with +hit, but if you have some +hit items or alternative items which you can gem with +hit, go ahead.

Sporr
08-29-2008, 07:18 AM
O, and we were also finding it hard to pull the baby birds down below when the tanks were going all out TPS on the boss, we ended up just hanging out up top doing white damage so that the hunters could get the others down to the pally. Does that sound correct for phase one strat?

Shortypop
08-29-2008, 07:22 AM
We had melee up on the first platform to dps Al'ar, but as soon as he moved, they all jumped down to kill the adds (and stayed down there) - you don't want anyone more than the tanks upstairs as its more people to be late jumping off for the quill -- or at least I don't know of any strat which uses melee upstairs. As long as your tanks don't do any aoe type things as the adds spawn and they should just fly straight off downstairs, you might need a misd to get them to you rather than the healers :) but can't help you there I've never add-tanked.

Cynocide
08-29-2008, 07:23 AM
Don't forget that along with Taunt, you have Challenging Shout and Mocking Blow available to you when they're off CD

Sporr
08-29-2008, 07:34 AM
So no one else has found that the small birds seem to have some of Al'ar's agro table? I would DS and TC around 10 seconds before the move, the baby birds weren't up yet, and shouldn't have been affected by them.

jere
08-29-2008, 07:45 AM
I tank the birds often, and unless the tank attacks them or a PoM on the tank goes off right then, they aggro a healer, so they run down the ramp.

Sometimes a tank will TC at the wrong time or something, but usually they run down after a healer.

Turmoil
08-30-2008, 01:20 AM
Assuming you have the usual set of 3 platform tanks, one of which is running adds to the add-tank in phase 2, in taunt resist situations you should get the third tank to swap in with you, even briefly, while your taunt cools down. If you just have the two platform tanks, I envy your raid for letting you have so much fun, and as has been said, use mocking blow / aoe taunt. If you get taunts resisted a lot, consider speccing for reduced taunt cd.


As far as adds sticking on tanks, we generally only have problems when PoM or ES is going off a lot. Just take an extra hunter (useful if yours have a habit of dying on trash misdirects..) to plonk into the MD rotation for adds.. though eventually the adds will get down the ramps anyway. You could always assign a warlock to take add aggro and run near the add-tank.

Throng
09-02-2008, 12:24 AM
Well well, I was just about to open an Al'ar thread of my own :)

I tank on the last of the 4 positions and the adds never stick to me. You must be doing something to get their attention...

As I'm on the ramp I often have to change to zerker and intercept after flame quills, and this has been giving me some grief. While waiting at the bottom of the ramp, on supposedly safe ground, I was once hit by flame quills and died, so I now stand off the floor at the bottom altogether, and just inside the main floor area instead. Where is the best, safe place to stand?

The other problem is that once or twice I have run up the ramp spamming Intercept and literally charged off the ramp, which is rather embarrassing. Anybody had this? I've been moving away from the edge to compensate but this, combined with where I now stand during flame quills, means that he usually gets a couple of flame buffets off before I get there.

Please, share your tips!

Del
09-09-2008, 10:12 AM
If you're "upstairs" tanking, and an add spawns, you can always taunt it and hop down, it will follow the ramp strait to your add tanks/melee :). (you should have plenty of time to hop off your platform, and run up the other side to get to your next platform).


P2 make yourself a mocking blow macro and pick up tac mastery if taunt resists are causing a problem. I never really had a problem with it and I use minimal hit gear.

Kaioken
09-09-2008, 10:25 AM
The other problem is that once or twice I have run up the ramp spamming Intercept and literally charged off the ramp, which is rather embarrassing. Anybody had this? I've been moving away from the edge to compensate but this, combined with where I now stand during flame quills, means that he usually gets a couple of flame buffets off before I get there.

Please, share your tips!

Well, from my experience doing A'lar (We only used 2 platform tanks, myself and another warrior), as soon as you jump down to avoid the flame quills, just intervene someone that's in your path to go back up the ramp so you may not have to risk a fire buffet on the raid (or risk intercepting off the platform!). If you're really having trouble with it, just designate someone to stand right in your path so you can get their faster, whatever works. Even if your raid gets debuffed one time or so, it's nothing they can't heal through, you just can't waste time getting there!

Hamburglar
09-09-2008, 12:07 PM
A fire buffet or two is nothing to worry about because there should be virtually no raid damage going on in phase 1 besides that. A good way to keep from getting fire buffets is to designated a priest to put a shadowfiend on him when he is coming out of flame quill. If your raid dps is good you will only see 2 or maybe even 1 flame quill. I do not recommend intercepting back up because it involves blowing your entire rage bar and risking unnecessary crushing blows.

As for taunt resists, good communication is key. Have your other tank keep an oh-shit button handy and be quick to inform him if a taunt is resisted. In any case, it is good to have another tank handy in case of taunt resists.

To stop adds sticking to the tank, advise your healers to stop using PoM or reactive heals that produce threat on the tank when Al'ar is about to switch platforms. What your seeing is the threat from the reactive heals keeping the add on you as opposed to aggroing down on the healers below.

kolben
09-26-2008, 09:02 AM
Well well, I was just about to open an Al'ar thread of my own :)

I tank on the last of the 4 positions and the adds never stick to me. You must be doing something to get their attention...

As I'm on the ramp I often have to change to zerker and intercept after flame quills, and this has been giving me some grief. While waiting at the bottom of the ramp, on supposedly safe ground, I was once hit by flame quills and died, so I now stand off the floor at the bottom altogether, and just inside the main floor area instead. Where is the best, safe place to stand?

The other problem is that once or twice I have run up the ramp spamming Intercept and literally charged off the ramp, which is rather embarrassing. Anybody had this? I've been moving away from the edge to compensate but this, combined with where I now stand during flame quills, means that he usually gets a couple of flame buffets off before I get there.

Please, share your tips!

I usually intervene someone, a pet or a totem close'ish to the ramp to get me in place, and then i turn my camera up and just watch to see which way he is pointing. I'm standing on the floor, about 3-5 yds from the ramp looking at Al'ar to avoid the wonky way fire quil works around walls and the ramp.

I think I run up the middle of the ramp, but what's on my mind is running the straightest line to the little tip he fly's to so I can intercept sooner. I think that means I start middle-ramp and end up right edge just as I get in range.

In my experience it is normal to get one tick of flame damge since you aren't there when he arrives at the platform which is what causes him to do it.

Late reply to your post, hope you're getting him. Very very easy fight once your raid gets it worked out.

Throng
09-26-2008, 09:12 AM
Late reply to your post, hope you're getting him. Very very easy fight once your raid gets it worked out.

Thanks for the tips, suppose I'm not doing anything wrong then. :D
Yeah we got him down but he's been tough to kill a second time (it's proving more difficult to get a 25 man going due to Wrath, so we've had lots of new people in every attempt since) but we have ticked that box and moved on. :p

Alent
09-26-2008, 11:14 AM
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Optimoos
09-26-2008, 11:30 AM
Here's how we setup the Al'ar fight:

4 tanks - 3 whatever + 1 paladin
+1 holy pally

Phase 1, upper platform tanks get in position, protadin places himself underneath the ledge of the ramp closest to where the first tank will pull, holy pally turns on righteous fury and stands on top of the protadin so heal aggro will pull the small birds and protadin can taunt a single target. Melee is on the small birds, 1 is assigned to call out 15%, all melee back away, a single ranged dps (usually a hunter) nukes the bird down, it explodes, protadin bumps his head on the ledge and takes no falling damage. Repeat. Upper platform tanks are ezmode.

To the best of my knowledge and experience, Al'ar maintains her aggro table between phase 1 and 2. Your warlocks and mages who have been nuking away happily during phase 1 and are miles ahead of the tanks on threat will be her initial targets in phase 2. At the end of phase 1, try to take note of the top 3 on aggro and position your Al'ar tanks next to those players, and if possible, have them threat dump.

Phase 2, the 3 upper platform tanks will be on Al'ar, there should be a primary tank, a tank which will always taunt first, and a tank which will always taunt when the second tank calls his taunt is resisted. If both taunts are resisted, both tanks go nuts blowing cooldowns to get Al'ar off the tank with Melt Armor. Again, the holy pally, still with righteous fury, stands on the protadin to get healing aggro on the small birds spawning on this phase. We chose to ignore the birds and simply let the protadin tank them all while all of our dps concentrates on nuking Al'ar. The holy pally generally can solo heal the protadin until Al'ar is around 15% at which point he may require assistance (FR gear on the protadin obviously makes a difference here as well). If the protadin dies (sucks, but with all those birds sometimes it's hard to see flame patches) and Al'ar is at 10-15%, we may call to nuke low HP birds to try to take out Al'ar before the birds exterminate the raid. If Al'ar is lower, we simply continue to nuke her. If Al'ar is higher, it is a wipe.

For us, phase 2 became the epitome of TBC "don't stand in the fire" problems - this is the one fight where people continually died to flame patches no matter whether it was our first kill or our 15th.

Throng
09-26-2008, 12:08 PM
For us, phase 2 became the epitome of TBC "don't stand in the fire" problems - this is the one fight where people continually died to flame patches no matter whether it was our first kill or our 15th.

Same here. It was the Flame Patches that made me write Obituary (http://www.curse.com/downloads/details/13624/). It didn't help... :p