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Lavache
08-26-2008, 01:31 PM
i snipped this from raidguru and found it interesting. there wasnt comment space and i found it worthy of discussion (and im thinking about including it on my own resume)

Guild Leadership= Resume Fodder (http://www.raidguru.net/index.php?topic=297.0)


From WoWInsider's Officer Quarter's Column:

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.

I'm not sure how, because I usually avoid the topic around "civilians," but the subject of Warcraft came up a few weeks ago as I was speaking with a co-worker in my department. I don't mean my glamorous position blogging for WoW Insider that has made me a globally recognized household name -- in this case, I'm talking about my corporate, Clark Kent job. When you talk about the Lich King there, people think it's some kind of organic fast-food restaurant.

During this conversation I started talking about my role as a guild leader. While I was explaining it, I realized just how much of this role I've applied to situations in my office life. Wouldn't a company value this type of training? The author of this week's e-mail asks just how to present your guild leadership experience to a potential employer.

It's not easy to be the GM/officer/leader in a successful guild, regardless of how you define 'successful.' We work hard to keep drama at a minimum, create an environment where our members are comfortable and having fun, recruit new folks, 'fire' bad seeds among many other duties and obligations. All while developing our own toons, often to be on par with the best of the rest.
To me, that sounds like a great resume builder for the real world. Employers are looking for that kind of leadership, discipline, and knowledge.


It strikes me that running a WoW guild would make a great addition to a resume, especially since many of these leaders are younger and may not have other resume options. But even folks with more 'established' careers might want to list their WoW work along with the investment club they've founded or the softball team they captain.


What would be the best way to list the benefits of WoW leadership on a resume?

Alex

I haven't applied for any new jobs since I've taken on the GL mantle, but when I do, I'm fairly certain that I'll include this background on my resume somewhere. Is that a good idea? IBM seems to think so. MMOs are finally breaking into mainstream consciousness -- mostly due to Warcraft's unprecedented success. The game was featured on an Emmy-winning episode of South Park, parodied on The Simpsons, and even The Alchemist (from The Venture Bros.) knows about it.

So it's not out of the question that the person reading your resume will have heard of this game, or at least be familiar with the concept of a perpetual online environment. They might even know what a guild is. Even so, you may be better off describing yourself as an "online community manager."

On a resume, I wouldn't list this type of position under employment experience. However, it does make a great item to put in those miscellaneous categories where you'd ordinarily list less relevant achievements like your competitive eating world records -- well, I suppose it all depends on the position you're looking for.

Space is always at a premium on a resume, so it's important to communicate the essential highlights of the role that have enhanced your corporate skills. Now of course you have to present these highlights in terms that a business manager can grasp. So, in the true spirit of a resume, we'll make them sound much more complex and difficult than they really are. Here are a few.

Conflict resolution: Sometimes I feel like I don't do anything else.

Crisis management: Ditto. And when there's no crisis, I'm trying to figure out where the next one is going to come from.

Partnership negotiation: If you've ever tried to make a guild alliance work, figuring out who gets what raid slots or who's going to lead raids and who's going to main tank, you've done this.
Personnel motivation: Every guild leader has to rally the troops now and then.

Personnel evaluation: Raid leaders do this constantly. Who's not putting out enough DPS? Who's not researching their class mechanics? Who shows up to every raid totally stoned?

Finance: All that gold in the guild bank wasn't put there just to rot. Is it better to invest in another bank vault, mats for resist gear, or epic gems? It's not exactly the stock market, but the wrong decisions can alienate your "investors" and reduce income.
Asset allocation: Somebody has to figure out who gets the loot, and that unpleasantness usually falls to us.

Entrepreneurship: It's a fancy word for starting a new business. Starting a new guild isn't much different!
Dynamic accountability: One of the hardest things to do as an officer, but one of the most important, is admitting when we screwed up. (And everything sounds better when you put "dynamic" in front of it. Observe: dynamic lettuce. There, doesn't that make lettuce sound more exciting?)

Corporate headhunting: Hmm, maybe it's better not to mention this one.
Marketing: Every guild needs to find an angle that's appealing to its "customers."
Ongoing recruitment: You've probably reviewed applications, and you may have even conducted an interview or two. You can sympathize with the poor schmo who has to read through all of our blatantly padded resumes.
Keep in mind that, during your eventual job interview, the manager might ask you to elaborate on what you've written. So make sure you can back up each skill that you list with a concrete example of how you applied your knowledge and experience to succeed.

When and if you are asked to share, make sure to describe the problem in real-world language. Don't expect anyone to understand MMO- or Warcraft-specific jargon like class balance, DKP, retn00bs, PUGs, specs, dailies, HOT rotations, welfare epics, L2P issues, or crowd control.

Never, ever use the phrases "grinding for mount money," "chain-pulling a heroic dungeon," or "constantly wiping on trash." You want your interviewer to be impressed by your savvy leadership, not mace you and call security.

Running a guild may be easier than shoving 66 hot dogs into your mouth in less than 12 minutes, but it's certainly more relevant to the business world!

/salute

Carlos
10-13-2008, 10:33 AM
I actually got hired for a job, due to being a guild leader, over a person with equal experience/resume/etc.

The thing is, leadership is very important, even in a non leading role. It's the capability to see things others don't see, motivate people, spot work for yourself, etc. That's also what managers like their (co-)workers see doing.

I didn't put it in my resume, but it came up in a discussion. However, I did put it in my "additional info" part. But use a term like Online Community Manager :) that pretty much let's them ask you what kind of community etc. Make sure you prepare for a decent explanation though!

It's good MMO's are slowly getting into the mainstream though :) especially since being a guild-/raidleader is almost like a fulltime job.

Lore
10-13-2008, 01:33 PM
I mentioned being a raid leader in an interview about a year go

The guy just laughed. I didn't get the job =(

Fayre
10-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Even if you don't mention it in a CV or interview, this stuff has got to come across in work scenarios, in my opinion. Leadership isn't something you can suddenly turn off when you get paid for it, so hey, it's probably already boosting your pay packet ;)

It's surprising what raid and guild leadership can teach you though. It's like running a mini-business... bit like the local football club or something, with the volunteers and the event organising and all that.

Ciderhelm
10-13-2008, 06:54 PM
Realism tends to help more than idealism when you need a job. :p

Guild leadership and raid leadership can teach you a lot and give you a lot of valuable work skills. So long as you're willing to learn, you can come away from it with a lot of knowledge and tact that you might not have learned otherwise.

But if you are applying for a job, you write a resume that gets you hired. Under extraordinary circumstances, mentioning you're a guild leader or raid leader as previous experience could be the difference between getting hired and not -- but it's more likely it will hurt you. I'd go so far as to say it's very likely it will hurt you, and this will be the case for 5-10 more years.

If you want to include it in a job application, simply go with the "online community manager" role in a volunteer field or further comments section. If the interviewer knows what they're talking about, they'll ask you for more information.

Carlos
10-13-2008, 10:44 PM
Also, it obviously depeds on the function/company you're applying. Work in a factory doesn't require leadingskills, they prefer ppl who can follow orders :P

Dismember
10-14-2008, 08:38 AM
Being in a position where I do look at resumes and participate in the interview process, I can say most definitively that if you list "WoW guild leader/officer" as background for leadership or interpersonal skills, we would all have a good laugh, and then promptly enter your resume into the circular file (trash can).

To the average person who doesn't play MMO's (and they still outnumber us) you then become "one of those people". Now through your resume you have placed yourself into a category that carries a negative stereotype with many people. Beyond that, if you are applying for a position that requires leadership skills, and the best you can muster is " WoW guild leader/officer", you simply aren't qualified. Many of the underlying principles apply, but the reality is that leadership in a virtual world =/= leadership in the real world, where you have to deal with people face to face (anyone can be Chuck Norris in the anonymity and physical separation of the intarwebz) and your decisions can have a profound effect on a person's life and can carry serious consequences.

However, it would be acceptable to list it as experience when you are applying for a position such as, say, a CM for an online game, etc. In my opinion, the applicability simply isn't there for the majority of jobs, and culturally it still isn't really "acceptable" to be an MMOer, so to voluntarily put that label on yourself is going to do more harm than good in most cases when job hunting is concerned.

Kedearian
12-23-2008, 10:48 PM
The cooperate world hates video games. It's true. The guy hiring you may be a raid leader in his off time. He might be in that guild on your server that's downed 25man maly.. but in the office he hates video games, and video gamers. Dont wear your quake lanyard. Dont pull out your rpga membership card (i keep mine behind my license just so it doesn't show). Don't talk about video games idly. Remember that you are there for a job. You want to be as bland as the job requires, and you have no out side intrests.

Ked

Alent
12-23-2008, 11:22 PM
Being the horrible nerd that I am, yet still having a sense of tact, I would like to know -would it be treated with the same disdain if instead of saying you were the "head and organizer of your hobby group" (not necessarily phrased like that, that's just the best wording I can come up with after a night of raiding.)? I assume so but just curious.

bludwork
12-24-2008, 09:31 PM
there's no correlation imo. Some of the best managers/project leaders I know have a very different style of leading compared to what you see in wow. At the end of the day with wow, someone is paying 15$ to play *with* you; in the real world the motivators tend to be different and managers have a lot more leeway and tools to be effective. These guys would probably fall on their face in wow.

Kalbitang
02-09-2009, 08:39 AM
This is kind of thread-necro, so sorry for that. I recently saw an article about some recruiters receiving requests to filter out WoW players. It all depends on the job. Of course some of the skills from leading raids/guilds could translate over, but for every person who gains skill from the game, there are those who have bloodshot eyes and surf the web too much.

Honestly, it's probably better not to talk about WoW too much at work.

/regrets surfing and everyone in the office knowing he plays WoW. :O