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Kyvaan
08-26-2008, 03:39 AM
to start things off i didnt know if to put this under WoTLK or in the guild general, i figured since i needed some advice to create my own guild id post it here.

my whole idea is to make a 10 man raiding guild focused on super fast progression in WoTLK. the thing that making us casual-core is the is me and my buddy that are starting the guild wanna set up a 3-4 night a week raid schedual. which brings me to my first question is it possible to stay ahead of progression with only 3-4 nights of raiding a week? i know my friend was in a guild called "The Sundering" on cenarius (my server) pre BC and they only raided i belive 4 nights a week and they managed to be one of the top guilds in the server.

my next question is about loot systems. i have never truely been a fan of DKP due to my past experiences in others guilds ive been in. the next option is a loot council. i dont have much experience with it but my bud says its better than dkp. so i just need some more outside opinions about which would be best.

well those are truely the main concerns i have with forming a guild i would truely appreciate any input given. :)

Stearns
08-26-2008, 10:34 AM
I dont have much advice on creating a 10 man raid guild; since the expansion hasnt been released, a lot of what I have to say would be largely speculation. But what I do see is that the best guilds dont necessarily raid the most hours - they've basically got their acts together, which is why they're successful. As a side note, the fast progressing guilds dont have the best gear either - they dont have the time to gear everyone up perfectly... and they prove that you dont need to.

In terms of loot, I've had experience of both, and I much prefer dkp. I dont think one is better than the other, it depends on the context enormously, and the details of the system. The reason I love our dkp system is that it rewards players who put the most time into their mains, come to the most raids, and havent won anything for "a while". Its also simple, objective and transparent. No its not perfect, and no loot system will be... but we all know where we stand before every raid, and who we may be bidding against (and how much dkp they have), should we decide to bid.

Sanelora
08-26-2008, 06:08 PM
Currently my guild (Voodoo on Barthilas - geddit, i'm a voodoo gnome.... BAD JOKE) raids 3 nights a week.

we cleared SSC/TK at the attunement time (and of course, i didnt get my kael vial ><) hyjal and BT in 5 weeks and are now 2/6 in sunwell!

so, yes, 3 raiding nights work just fine. One tip however. use days that people will not be going out as you may get grumpy/distracted raiders (not friday/saturday).

Casual and Hardcore are just attitudes that you take to raiding. if you want "super fast progression" you need to ensure that you and other people in your guild are dedicated and focussed towards getting through content. that means food/flasks/repair cash/gear enchanted/inscriptions so on and so forth.

Good luck mate :D

Gretchin
08-28-2008, 01:17 AM
In a small guild who only will raid 10 man instances isn't it just easier to roll for the loot? No need to put a lot of time and effort into finding a loot system that works for you, then try to make it understandable for everyone in the guild, when you can just say it as simple as "ITEM XXX DROPPED, THOSE WHO WANTS ROLL NOW" and then manual countdown 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, -.

Kyvaan
08-28-2008, 07:13 AM
thanx guyz for the advice :D

Caulle
08-28-2008, 07:31 AM
With a 10man group, the easiest thing to do is to just say "Who wants this?" and to keep track of who gets what in each run. Take turns. One guy gets something, and then passes the next item he wants to the other guy.

When we first started up Karazhan, our composition was totally wonky. We had 3 holy priests healing, warrior MT, druid OT, a rogue, 2 warlocks, a hunter, and a mage. There was a ton of competition for certain pieces but it still worked out. We had all been friends for years so everyone was pretty fair and generous with loot. We had to force a few items on people I believe because neither wanted to take gear over the other player.

Either way, just make sure that they know loot rules ahead of time. If you want to leave it on group and someone says they're going to roll on a piece of loot and you think they're joking? Don't take that chance and set it to ML.

Skinzenbonz
08-28-2008, 01:12 PM
I think there are 2 factors that define progression. The first is the time you put in and the second is the quality of your players. 'Casual' is a terrible word to use to describe a raiding experience (we use it too...) because it means so many things. Is casual *just* the number of raid nights? What about your approach to maximizing gear? Do you farm that instance for the rare drop just for that slight upgrade?

I think a tight guild of dedicated and highly skilled players can pull off great progression in a 3-4 night a week schedule. Having 'hardcore' players that can only make it 3 days a week is significantly different than 'average' or 'social' players. The key is to have some common expectations up front that everyone buys into.

As for loot, with 10 mans I wouldn't bother with a loot system. The amount of overhead is just too much trouble for little gain. Having said that if you really are looking for something I strongly recommend EPGP. It has all the benefits of DKP (rewarding for effort, time, etc.) without some of the negatives (haording, inflation, etc.).