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View Full Version : Collapsing on Kil'jaeden



Kamani
08-18-2008, 10:22 PM
My guild is currently working on KJ and one thing that we are debating is whether or not to collapse for the initial breath after Kalecgos enables an orb.

We are having DPS problems because we are rerolled 2/3 months ago and still have people in T5. We are trying to squeeze out as much DPS as possible.

Has anybody done any math or testing to see what would be more effective? Collapsing vs just having melee and warlocks collapse.

BTW, a fight where all your prot warriors get sat makes me /tear.

Xav
08-19-2008, 02:44 PM
You don't have to sit as a prot warrior, terrible! I'm prot and we always did just fine.
Collapse. Net gain if done properly and quickly. Trust me!

ttocs
08-19-2008, 04:13 PM
We're working on KJ right now, and we're trying to get the first collapse in. Problem is, if the orb is far away from the dragon guy, and how far it is to get to the 'collapse spot'.

For what it's worth, I'm prot and tanking him dual wielding in fury gear. Maybe my fury gear sucks (I'm also in the 'tank group', with just imp and commanding shout), but I'm going to have to make the adjustments to get a bit more threat out.

My GL is talking a consistent 2K TPS. Right now, I max out at about 1560 spamming devastate and heroic strike. Punts are also annoying...

Blindlabel
08-19-2008, 05:35 PM
We're working on KJ right now, and we're trying to get the first collapse in. Problem is, if the orb is far away from the dragon guy, and how far it is to get to the 'collapse spot'.

For what it's worth, I'm prot and tanking him dual wielding in fury gear. Maybe my fury gear sucks (I'm also in the 'tank group', with just imp and commanding shout), but I'm going to have to make the adjustments to get a bit more threat out.

My GL is talking a consistent 2K TPS. Right now, I max out at about 1560 spamming devastate and heroic strike. Punts are also annoying...

I've tanked him as Protection w/ DPS gear generating about 2300TPS+. I've also tanked him as 33/15/13 w/ DPS gear (obviously) doing about 2000TPS+. It's very doable.

I use two fast weapons for 33/15/13 (w/ Tactical Mastery.)

Also, silly question but.. you are in defensive stance right? You shouldn't really even need Commanding Shout or Imp, it's a loss in DPS really I tank w/ Battle Shout and I'm usually just thrown in a random group, nothing special.

Kamani
08-19-2008, 10:24 PM
You don't have to sit as a prot warrior, terrible! I'm prot and we always did just fine.
Collapse. Net gain if done properly and quickly. Trust me!

Meh, I'm just a normal member. Raid leader decided to use a feral druid on KJ and just a prot pally for reflections. I afk in Shatt while playing NCAA 2009.

ttocs
08-21-2008, 02:54 PM
I've tanked him as Protection w/ DPS gear generating about 2300TPS+. I've also tanked him as 33/15/13 w/ DPS gear (obviously) doing about 2000TPS+. It's very doable.

I use two fast weapons for 33/15/13 (w/ Tactical Mastery.)

Also, silly question but.. you are in defensive stance right? You shouldn't really even need Commanding Shout or Imp, it's a loss in DPS really I tank w/ Battle Shout and I'm usually just thrown in a random group, nothing special.

Well, so far I've been tanking in an admittedly retarded spec (17/3/41), and only generating that much. I've tried fast/slow, slow/slow, and fast/fast. I was spamming devastate and heroic strike. I was always in the "tank group" which is imp/other tank. I don't get any melee buffs, not even windfury. I think I can do it at 16K HP, but with one healer on me they complain that I dip low a bit much.

I'm going to try a 0/31/30 tonight while we figure out collapses. I would be interested in a 33/15/13 type spec, as blood frenzy would buff the raid. What was your group comp? Did you just fill the rotation (when MS was on cooldown) with sunders?

Sorry to derail this thread a bit, but I'm interested in hearing about how others have done this.

Edit: Yeah, I'm doing it in defensive stance. Only doing about 600-800 DPS, and it swings wildly (probably from fireblooms, though I've had a few attempts doing >800 with zero fireblooms)

Blindlabel
08-22-2008, 03:11 AM
Well, so far I've been tanking in an admittedly retarded spec (17/3/41), and only generating that much. I've tried fast/slow, slow/slow, and fast/fast. I was spamming devastate and heroic strike. I was always in the "tank group" which is imp/other tank. I don't get any melee buffs, not even windfury. I think I can do it at 16K HP, but with one healer on me they complain that I dip low a bit much.

I'm going to try a 0/31/30 tonight while we figure out collapses. I would be interested in a 33/15/13 type spec, as blood frenzy would buff the raid. What was your group comp? Did you just fill the rotation (when MS was on cooldown) with sunders?

Sorry to derail this thread a bit, but I'm interested in hearing about how others have done this.

Edit: Yeah, I'm doing it in defensive stance. Only doing about 600-800 DPS, and it swings wildly (probably from fireblooms, though I've had a few attempts doing >800 with zero fireblooms)

Well, my DPS gear is pretty good I have everything aside from rare drops like Necklace/Cloak/Madness/Cursed Vision (for us). I don't wear any gear that would improve my stamina, I'm probably at 13k without Imp. When I tank it as protection, I just use my normal spec which is 10/5/46. I use Slow/Slow when Protection.

My group comp tonight was Enhancement Shaman, Rogue, Rogue and Fury Warrior but they were all on the other side of me so I received no buffs. I'm sure my threat/DPS would be even higher if I actually had Windfury though I find that I don't need it, half way through the fight I can go take a nap.

My rotation is pretty simple, HEROIC STRIKE, HEROIC STRIKE, HEROIC STRIKE (repeat.) Obviously, I have tactical mastery and sword spec (duel-wielding tanking swords FTW.) So I guess it's more like spamming Mortal Strike and Heroic Strike, I use Sunder Armor in the beginning but the Rogues usually put up Expose Armor.

Tharr
08-22-2008, 05:12 AM
We're working on KJ right now, and we're trying to get the first collapse in. Problem is, if the orb is far away from the dragon guy, and how far it is to get to the 'collapse spot'.


We use 2 mages for Dragons, they have blink. And dragons have blink with no cd, so they can get anywhere really fast. Druid tanking KJ, a paladin for mirror images our other feral speccs resto and I specc fury.

And collapse, it's a huge dps gain. We do it at 75 and 55 but not 25, which works good for us.

ttocs
08-22-2008, 11:31 AM
I'm in the spec/gear that I tank him in now.

Tried a 0/31/30 last night, doing BT, HS and spamming sunders inbeteween. It's worked out pretty well. Using Dragonscale mainhand, Mounting Vengeance offhand.

I have 6/8 Fury T6, missing helm/gloves (using S3 helm/Akama gloves instead), and the usual cloak/neck/rings. Using PvP gear (Dory's/S3/S2+S3 rings) in those spots.

All I need now is a free action potion for phase 1, before we get any breaths. Otherwise, though, I've seen myself go on a crit streak and hit as high as 3K TPS, with just windfury. My HP is probably a bit lower than they want - a bit under 15K with some extra PvP gear thrown in (bracers/belt).

But, I think I'll hit the needed threat level in the later phases. .94 Weapon speed with breath + flurry!

Edit: I am interested in trying out the MS/BF spec, though - the extra 4% might help our seemingly gimp rogue DPS.

OniNaito
09-28-2008, 12:58 PM
This isn't on the exact topic of collapsing but I didn't want to start a new KJ thread.

Sinister Reflections: How are you guys handling them? My guild has a feral on KJ and a prot warrior (myself) picking up all the reflections for single target killing. (Tried a prot pally but I guess he was having trouble /shrug). I have a bit of trouble picking them up because I can't find them, how are you guys picking them up? I think the fact that I'm in a new guild and don't know people's names yet is my main problem, but any other tips would be really helpful.

If I'm able to find them picking them up usually isn't too bad and we can single target them down just fine, but the DPS on KJ is slow. They definitely can't AoE because I have enough trouble holding them off healer aggro.

I was only in there for one night of attempts but ultimately it was fairly discouraging because either I couldn't find them and they killed the raid or when I picked them up fine DPS was slow. I'm not really in a position right now to be suggesting a new strategy to my raid leader so if you guys have any ideas how to made due with the current situation, I'm all ears. If the strat is just bad in general maybe we need to make changes and I'm curious what you guys think on that subject as well.

Sorry for the wall of inconsistent thoughts, just trying to be as prepared as I can to do what is asked of me. Thanks for your help.

Darksend
09-28-2008, 01:47 PM
this is just my personal opinion, but depending on how you spread out normally, and how long it takes you to kill shield orbs

at first we would have everyone collapse, but people were both slow at getting out causing splash damage from flame darts and which would cause the shield orbs to make it around and really hurt people. we were never getting past 55.

we changed it to only the melee collapsing, we killed him the next day.

its all what is most comfortable for your guild either way works there are benefits and downsides to both.

also i notice a lot of you MT kj, my guild has from day 1 used a warlock and than me the feral druid and our prot main tank pick up reflections and we have never looked back on that decision. also, this may be because we use a fury warrior as 3rd tank on kalec and he resepcs prot for muru then back to fury for KJ so we really only have 2 tanks.



Sinister Reflections: How are you guys handling them? My guild has a feral on KJ and a prot warrior (myself) picking up all the reflections for single target killing. (Tried a prot pally but I guess he was having trouble /shrug). I have a bit of trouble picking them up because I can't find them, how are you guys picking them up? I think the fact that I'm in a new guild and don't know people's names yet is my main problem, but any other tips would be really helpful.

even though you are new in the guild, you need to ask for assist. it has been my firm belief that for both muru and kj anyone tanking in that fight needs assist.
/targetexact Sinister Reflection
/script SetRaidTarget("target", 8)
/focus

8 is skull use whatever you like best. Now, stand and face one half of the room. turn your camera and look over your shoulder so your camera is facing the opposite way of you. If you see a skull well thats where are they if not just hit "w" or whatever you move forward with and it will turn your camera back to normal and they must be on that side of the room. we use 2 tanks and still sometimes things get lose. i do not envy having to solo tank it.



I was only in there for one night of attempts but ultimately it was fairly discouraging because either I couldn't find them and they killed the raid or when I picked them up fine DPS was slow. I'm not really in a position right now to be suggesting a new strategy to my raid leader so if you guys have any ideas how to made due with the current situation, I'm all ears. If the strat is just bad in general maybe we need to make changes and I'm curious what you guys think on that subject as well.

Sorry for the wall of inconsistent thoughts, just trying to be as prepared as I can to do what is asked of me. Thanks for your help.

not your fault, if i was the only one doing adds, the aoe would be a lot worse. nothing against my prot warrior partner but i am ALWAYS there before him unless it spawns on the mages or the one shadow priest on the extreme far side of the room. (feral charge is op.) what i do is swipe, this will activate 3 of them, take a step back, one will not move the one swipe did not hit. then i taunt that last one and wait for the warrior to pick the 2 off me that he wants. (also for this fight i bind taunt to also mark the target i taunt with a diamond, thus i always take diamond and skull)