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smacks
08-18-2008, 11:37 AM
I have found a crappy issue with heroic badges. I rerolled on a low pop server, and the healer I used is afk irl for the next 3 months. I have amassed 13k HP, 14k armor, 492 defense (+30 resil, so 502 defense honestly) and when I try to get into heroic groups, they boot me cause I have blues, and I don't have 15k HP. Before I enchanted my gear, I tanked everything in Kara except Prince and Illhoof with 12k and only 2 healers, but noone wants to hear that. Pisses me off in general that people are so spoiled to such high HP tanks and tanks that are epicced. I have tanked Heroic Mech, Heroic Black Morass, and Heroic Slave Pens in guild groups (pug healers), but I just can't seem to find a pug for anythign else. Healers I have friended are getting to heroic levels, and that should get me plenty of runs, the situation just frustrates the hell out of me, and earned me 2 ignores for trying to plead my case.

I know Ill love the badge gear when I get it stacked, but getting to that point is just a total bitch when you can't find groups to get badges with. I would link an armory, but I got pissed and respecced fury to try and grind my epic flying for the weekdays over the next couple of weeks.

Just a vent.

Tatt
08-18-2008, 11:40 AM
You can get higher hpwithout badge gear, jsut choose the right gear. I haven't gotten a badge tank piece since 2.3, and no drops past kara, and I raid buffed last night to 21k hp. You just have to choose at your level if the stam and armor is worth the loss in avoidance, without badge gear you can't have both.

Tatt
08-18-2008, 01:54 PM
Ugh, enough with the "OMG life sucks cuz of badges" please...it sounds a lot like "OMG life sucks cuz of welfare epics" or lots of other rants. Badges aren't any easier to get than honor, or arena points, or raid drops. Why should I guy who spends 3-4 hours of his day grinding badges in painful pug heroics deserve less than the guy who dies first in every raid boss fight but has enough DKP to get badge equivalent or better gear? Stop worrying about gear, just have fun playing the game.

Ukk
08-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Well that's just the unfortunate effect of beginning the game at the end of its life-cycle.

smacks
08-18-2008, 03:11 PM
It'll turn around, I just needed to bitch about it. And wondered if others that weren't in failry large guilds had that problem also.

Tatt
08-18-2008, 03:14 PM
OK what server are you on? Because pugs on my server will take a meat puppet with a shield we are so short of tanks. It is actually much easier to find a healer than a tank on trollbane. And heroic mech/SP/bot/ramparts are probably easier than regular shadow labs/steam vaults, I honestly believe heroic ramparts could be done without a tank with the right make up.

smacks
08-18-2008, 03:41 PM
I'm on Chromaggus, I only rolled there to play with friends, so I don't really want to transfer unless they bail. My first 3 70s were on a high pop server, and tanks are in high demand, I was just unprepared for what to expect on the new server. Ukk actually nailed it, I came late in progression for that server, that is my main problem. Most of the people on the server know a tank they can call on. Sometimes it scares me when people are excited to have me, lol.

However, if the friends stopped playing, I will be on here looking for a decent server to transfer to.

smacks
08-18-2008, 03:43 PM
Actually, I am begging a shaman to go resto right now, if he goes resto, then I have a regular group made up of rogue hunter mage shaman and me that should be able to farm badges fairly easily.

Tatt
08-18-2008, 03:45 PM
Good luck to you!

fastidius
08-18-2008, 08:24 PM
According to your armoury which has prot spec and mostly tank gear worn i would say your main issue is your gems suck......12stam Gems in every slot and you gain a shitload of HP........your current gems are at best 9 stam and you seem to have some hybrid gems which do not help you at all......

Get a stamina range item....there are some that don't cost like the engy one if your budget is tight after gemming....

Your spec is fine so it's just you being tight on the gems i think.....

smacks
08-19-2008, 06:09 AM
Point taken on the gems, I have been tight on them. Curious how you could armory me though, I don't remember posting my character name.

dirt
08-19-2008, 06:49 AM
I'm in a similar boat as you in the sense I'm very late to the party and only have a few epics, mainly being rep gear. But currently I'm around 14.5kAC/13KHP and can only recall maybe one time someone saying your stats are not good enough to run a Heroic.

On my realm tanks are always in demand, I get probably 1/2 dozen whispers a day to tank instances or Kara. PuGs are always hit and miss. But now I'm finally in a decent guild and working towards Kara & badge gear. So if I did join a PuG and someone told me I was undergeared I'd laugh to myself and wish them luck on getting that epic tank.

Tatt
08-19-2008, 08:42 AM
Perfect example, I did ramparts last night. The tank had 12k hp, no idea how much armor but not much, and the only thing on him that wasn't blue or green was pvp gear, including his tanking weapon (S1 2.6 speed mace). Who cares, it was heroic ramparts :) If a tank gives a group of decently geared people 5-10 seconds to control everything, I don't care if he is hitting them with a fish, you can still down them easily. Instead of finding people who are willing to do heroics with you, find people YOU are willing to do heroics with.

Kavel
08-19-2008, 10:52 AM
Just like life, it's all about the networking. When that PUG you finally do get together works out well, don't be afraid to ask if they're regularly on at that time and interested in grouping up again. Use your friends list and build up a team. Heroics are horrible rate of return if it takes you 30-40 minutes to build a group, but once you get a team that can come together in 5-10 minutes, they become a blast.

Then, when you're ready to step it up a notch, having a decent network can help you reach a little above your gear level to get into a guild. Maybe you get into the guild that person you've been PUGging regularly with is in, or maybe you're a more attractive applicant because you bring 2-3 other people with you that could beef up a guild's Kara runs or something.

Neurolytic
08-21-2008, 12:36 PM
To give a bit of support to the OP, I have been kicked twice in the last week because I wasn't "geared" enough for heroic Bot even though I run it daily. I play on Baelgun which has more of a healer shortage than tank shortage...

Just don't take it personally...even though it is hard sometimes given the time some people invest in their characters. I just mark it up to spoiled dps and heals. There are plenty of resources both on this site and others for you to know exactly what you need for where you are at. Not every tank can be end game geared.

fastidius
08-21-2008, 03:35 PM
smacks click your posting name in forum and click about me. It's part of your registration to post 8)

smacks
08-22-2008, 06:41 AM
I keep logging in my crappy DPS gear, but after regemming, and a bbot enchant, I got up to 13,500 HP unbuffed, and I think its over 14k armor now. No Sun Eater again last night, booo. We're running Kara again tonight, so maybe it will be tank friendly on the drops. Last run netted me main tanking Moroes through Netherspite, but I had to leave before Illhoof and Prince, and noone could summon nightbane. Tonight I hope its easier on the healers and we can knock out a full clear. We still have a couple people that never saw Kara, and a few that have never seen Netherspite, so it should be interesting.

Muffin Man
08-23-2008, 02:08 AM
To give a bit of support to the OP, I have been kicked twice in the last week because I wasn't "geared" enough for heroic Bot even though I run it daily. I play on Baelgun which has more of a healer shortage than tank shortage...

Just don't take it personally...even though it is hard sometimes given the time some people invest in their characters. I just mark it up to spoiled dps and heals. There are plenty of resources both on this site and others for you to know exactly what you need for where you are at. Not every tank can be end game geared.

People are spoiled. I was asked to pug tank a H Bot run. Evidently the healer didn't think much of my gear cuz he left the instance during the first pull without saying anything. We 4-manned the pull with the spriest taking over healing. All four of us still standing afterwards without any cooldowns spent. Then one of the other dpsers tells me to get lost cuz I'm not geared enough. (For reference this was a few days after tanking H Slabs, so I'm pretty sure they didn't know what they were talking about).

Happy ending: slowly but surely I found a group of guys I could run heroics with and we usually do the daily + another when we see each other online. We don't complain about wipes, we have fun, and we're learning some of the harder instances without getting yelled at (Durnhold was a toughie). Thing with this group was I didn't find everyone else through pugging or know them in real life. More like I knew a guy, who also knew a guy, ect. So don't worry if your friends list doesn't make a full group. And even if you only know one other person in your party that helps a lot (especially if it's a healer).

Tatt
08-23-2008, 08:09 AM
This should make you feel better, last night someone was looking for dps for H BM. That is actually one of the few heroics I still enjoy, I whisper him, he laughs and says that fury warriors are lololol and invites a friend of mine's hunter alt....hunter is in greens, I am in T5/Hyjal gear :)

Silthias
08-23-2008, 01:27 PM
Im in mostly t6/hyjal/badge gear now, and i still get it from some people, eg. farming away in dps gear and join a group for a heroic, get people QQing about my hp being low straight away, and how they should kick me. I then had some of the other DPS turn round and defend me and just laugh at the poor guy, since the others had grouped wiht me before, we then go and clear faster than the the other guy planned on and he was constantly oom.

I guess the point is, even wiht the gear you still will meet pricks, the best bet is as everyone else has said, keep going and build a reputation up, eventually you wont be the one getting kicked, but the one complaining will be, or they stay and get shown up.

Stick with it and don't give up.

Regards,

Silthias

LittleMan
08-26-2008, 11:08 PM
I think alot of us experience this at some point.
I remember being 15 k hp and kicked out of a group because I had a blue trinket and ring.. Pissed me off.. Found it easier to lead my own groups after that.

So many people wanting quick smooth runs and see someone has a couple blues and assume they arent suitable and move on.

Then again at 16.5 k hp I was asked to sit out so a 12.5 k hp pally tank could come tank for a heroic SP run.. LOL people are weird sometimes.

I guess what I'm saying is people can be quirky.. they can sometimes base their choices on what their lack of knowledge leads them to believe.

That says nothing about you, your ability or your personal progress but more about their general lack of knowledge or flat out laziness.

Edgar
08-28-2008, 01:22 AM
492 defense (+30 resil, so 502 defense honestly)

Except that resilience does not give you awesome avoidance. I was told to get rid of resilience and replace it with defense ASAP.

Juon
08-28-2008, 09:58 PM
The funny thing is, no one asks how much health the paladin tank has, or how much migitation. Paladins are always welcomed as main tanks because wont need an OT.

The worst thing is, no one asks the warrior what is his EH.

Elyvern
08-29-2008, 02:51 AM
The funny thing is, no one asks how much health the paladin tank has, or how much migitation. Paladins are always welcomed as main tanks because wont need an OT.

The worst thing is, no one asks the warrior what is his EH.

Hate to burst your bubble, but playing a tank prior to joining this site, I have no idea what effective health is either. Avoidance yes, providing arcane math to calculate the number of times and how hard a boss hits in relation to your hitpoints and how many seconds you can survive with heals, yadada turns people off.

And at the poster above who got bypass as a 16.5k tank to a 12k hp pally - that pally isn't going to survive tanking 6 mob packs in H-SH for sure. :D No need for CC makes it a walk in the park, but the pally better has the stam and avoidance to eat all that damage.

Juon
08-29-2008, 03:30 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, but playing a tank prior to joining this site, I have no idea what effective health is either. Avoidance yes, providing arcane math to calculate the number of times and how hard a boss hits in relation to your hitpoints and how many seconds you can survive with heals, yadada turns people off.

And at the poster above who got bypass as a 16.5k tank to a 12k hp pally - that pally isn't going to survive tanking 6 mob packs in H-SH for sure. :D No need for CC makes it a walk in the park, but the pally better has the stam and avoidance to eat all that damage.

I have a resto shaman & a holy priest. The really weird thing that I cannot explain, is that healing a paladin with apparently lower EH is easier than a warrior.

In fact, druid tanks are easiest to heal, then paladin. Warrior tanks are hardest to heal, despite higher health pool, migitation and avoidance.

I have ran H SH w paladin tanks a few times. They are usually in greens & blues, Health ranges at 11k-14k. Their dmg taken is very consistent with very little spikes that can reduce them below 50%. The pulls are very fast, high aoe threat and they seem to be able to handle the beatings.

Dont ask me why : it puzzles the hell out of me so much I have rolled a paladin now lvl 13.....

Shadevarr
08-29-2008, 01:59 PM
That has puzzled me as well, hence why last week I ran with our main tankadin (both full ZA/SSC geared) through SH and other "pally is best" heroics with me as dps and the next day with him healing. It really gave both of us a perspective as to the tanking differences at the heroic level.

Tankadins focus on reaching uncrushable 1st before working on their EH. trash packs + 400 sbv = very little damage. Don't lose aggro once consecrate gets a few pulses in and no need for CC. All very appealing, but as far as "quickness" of the run, their constant need to drink after each pull slows the pace down a lot. (we only got the timed event in SH with me, the warrior tanking).

As a prot warrior, we got a whole lot of tricks. We rely heavily on the DPS following the kill order on large packs and the only CC I used on SH was a hunter.

All in all, I have to say that tankadins are balanced well currently vs. prot warriors. It is the lazyness of just aoe'ing each pull that makes them more appealing to the general masses. Honestly, I have heard of tankadins who go afk mid-pull and are not concerned about not losing aggro....now that is a lot less active tanking than any warrior can achieve.

LittleMan
08-31-2008, 10:12 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but playing a tank prior to joining this site, I have no idea what effective health is either. Avoidance yes, providing arcane math to calculate the number of times and how hard a boss hits in relation to your hitpoints and how many seconds you can survive with heals, yadada turns people off.

And at the poster above who got bypass as a 16.5k tank to a 12k hp pally - that pally isn't going to survive tanking 6 mob packs in H-SH for sure. :D No need for CC makes it a walk in the park, but the pally better has the stam and avoidance to eat all that damage.


Yeah it was pretty obvious they just didnt want to deal with having to CC even though the group was full of it... Said more about them than it did me.. Lazy people are not the kind of people you want to be grouped with..even now at 17.2k hp I'd rather run with an over achiever then a lazy person. Still irks you when you get ditched for another tank for those kind of reasons... As I was trying to get across to the OP. There are so many reasons why a group will opt to take one tank over another so he should try not to let it get under his skin much.